Text 1834, 76 rader
Skriven 2009-12-20 15:45:55 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Demjanjuk
=================
Hello Robert,

On Saturday December 19 2009 11:30, you wrote to me:

 MV>> If you allow one exception where the victim decides taking the law
 MV>> into his own hands is justified, there is nothing to stop the next
 MV>> one.

 RB> Michiel, we're not talking about a victim taking the law into his own
 RB> hands here.

I think we are.

 RB>  We're talking about the father of a victim

Victim by proxy, representative of a victim, call it what you like, it boild
down to the same thing.

 RB> demanding a legal trial and acceptance of the verdict. And about a
 RB> legal hassle between the French and German governments, to the
 RB> detriment of justice.

Justice is a matter of perspcetive. The bottom line is that the man ws not
satisfied with what the legal system came up with and took the matter in jis
own hand by kidnapping the aleged rapist amd murderer of his daighter.

 RB> The father in question "Justice pour Kalinka" didn't kill or otherwise
 RB> harm the man

That depends on what you call "harm". I suspect the kidnapper has a different
POV that the kidnappee. Since the reuslt of the action is that the latter is
now in jail and that without that het would be free, I say one can argue that
he has been harmed.

 RB> who was convicted of murder in a French court (!)

But according to the German legak system he was not guilty. The man was a
German citizen residing in germany

 RB>  - he merely made sure that the man could and would be judged AND if
 RB> found guilty punished,

Thereby taking the law in his own hand.

 RB> If the Germans think drugging and raping a minor is harmless, only
 RB> deserving of a suspended sentence, that's their business.

If we must accept that people are lured into the jurisdiction of another
country and then tried, convicted and put in jail for something they did in
their own country where it is not against the law (Blom), we must also accept
that the reverse can happen: someone goes free because what he has done is not
against the law of the country where he resides.

 RB> But their opinion is not the only one around, and the father and
 RB> convicting court are French in this case.

A French court has no jurisdiction in Germany, so their opinion does not count.

What counts is the opinion of the German court, because the subject is a German
citizen residing in Germany. And if the German legal system arrives at the
conclusion there is insufficient ground to extradite him to France or try him
in Germany, then that is the end of the story. Unacceptable as it is for the
victim.

 RB> I see a major difference here to real "vigilante" cases, where the
 RB> victim also exacts the punishment.

What I see is the common factor: someone dissatisfied with what the legal
system comes up with, taking the law in his own hand. Kidnapping is a serious
crime, whether the subject deserves it or not.


Cheers, Michiel

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