Text 19666, 129 rader
Skriven 2011-06-02 15:28:01 av Richard Webb (1:116/901.0)
  Kommentar till text 19662 av Lee Lofaso (1:323/120.0)
Ärende: Censorship in Fidonet
=============================
Hello Lee,

YOu and I have batted related issues to this one back in
forth in another echo until the echo mod asked that it
cease, which is his right.  But, if this isn't an
appropriate forum then there isn't one.

On Tue 2039-May-31 12:09, Lee Lofaso (1:323/120) wrote to All:

LL> Some folks misunderstand free speech, especially certain Americans
LL> in regards to the First Amendment.  The First Amendment exists to
LL> protect speech.  That includes unpopular speech.  It also includes
LL> protecting speech from government interference and from hecklers and
LL> mobs keeping speakers from speaking.

ON that we can agree.  But, here's where the waters get
cloudy.  tHe government according to the U.s> constitution
cannot censor free speech.  YEs we get into the semantics
and legalese of shouting fire in a crowded theater.

HOwever, let's put this in the light of the newspaper, the
broadcaster, or the bbs sysop/echo moderator.

OTher than publicly licensed facilities such as broadcasters who must give a
certain amount of consideration to the
unpopular viewpoint because it's a provision of holding the
license, the bbs is not the same.  YOu can say anything you
want in the public marketplace, but when you're a guest on
my turf you'll not say anything you want.  IF I edit the
magazine/newspaper, etc.  I'll always tell you that letters
to the editor may be edited, etc.

LL> Let's put things in light of fidonet.

Indeed, let's.

<snip>
LL> The role of fidonet sysops is to ensure that ALL SPEAKERS are not
LL> censored.  It is the role of fidonet sysops to protect ALL who wish
LL> to speak against those who would like to silence them.

Indeed, but, and this is where we differ, I offer the portal to users to access
various forums.  That user may be a guest on my system, but he's also a guest
in the echoes in which
he participates.  I think the analogy I used with you in
another echo was the apartment complex, and the tenant who
has a party.  Many of the guests will be other residents of
the building, but even more will be nonresidents.  THe host
is responsible for the conduct of his guests, especially
those who are not residents.  IF residents find a visitor
disrupting their lives they have a right to ask the resident who is host not to
invite that individual over anymore.
Nobody is saying, mind you, that the resident and the
problem individual can't be buddies, but if the guest visits he must be
carefully monitored so as not to create problems
for the other residents.


LL> The duty of a free and open society is to ensure that ALL VOICES ARE
LL> HEARD.  Fidonet has always stressed its mission as being a means for
LL> individuals to freely express their own opinions on whatever subject
LL> that comes to mind.  When fidonet sysops do the bidding of tyrants,
LL> those fidonet sysops have become tyrants themselves. No different
LL> than Hosni Mubarak.  Or Moammar Gadhaffi.

True, but within the context of the appropriate forum as
well.  If, for example, you were to start posting jokes
suitable for adults only in the emergcom echo, as its
moderator I would be very quick to ask you to cease, one
request would be all it would take, if there was a repeat,
your host sysop would be asked to curtail your access to the echo.

You don't, for example, have the right to stand in my front
yard and wave a SArah Palin for president sign.  You'll be
asked one time politely to take it elsewhere.  IF you choose not to do that,
other action will be taken, including
summoning law enforcement to remove a trespasser.


LL> This country has flourished because we allow ALL OPINIONS TO BE
LL> HEARD.  Once upon a time, fidonet also flourished.  But that was
LL> when fidonet sysops allowed all voices to be heard.  Today that is
LL> no longer true.

There again, it depends.  You're welcome to express any
viewpoint which is topical to the echo in any echo I
moderate.  Don't like Ovation guitars?  COol, you can say
why in the guitar echo.  ESpecially if you can state why you don't like them in
a clear and lucid manner.  IF, however,
all you can say is "ovation guitars suck" in the guitar echo I'm not going to
cut your feed, or ask that it be cut, but I might suggest you grow up a bit
<grin>.

LEt's leave aside for a moment all the arguments about
whether FIdonet aws ever intended to be democratic.  wHat
fIdonet is, above all, is a portal to many different virtual places, be they
message echoes, file echoes, etc.  even if
fIdonet were truly a democracy those various forums are not. Try getting some
blonde to do a striptease at COmmander's
palace sometime, see how long that lasts.

LL> Fidonet sysops have a long and proud history of defending speech of
LL> all kinds.  That includes speech which many people disagree with.
LL> Speech that actually offends.  Fidonet sysops have been known in the
LL> past to defend the speech, not the message.  And that is the way it
LL> should be.  And should always be.

And I will defend that, within the proper context.  IF the
echo mod says free and open speech is encouraged I don't
want to see a user of mine castigated for exercising that.
Back in my busy bbs days there ws one user who posted a
piece on illegal cb equipoment in the ham echo.  AT that
time the ham echo banned such postings.  He was admonished
for it, and never repeated the offense.

Another user back in those days posted one of those Dave
Rhodes get rich chain letters in an international echo, and
was immediately banned from my system.  I publicized all
over the board that posting such garbage would earn one an
immediate lockout, and he did it nayway.  NOt just was he
locked out of my board for it, but every other board in town that was connected
to FIdonet.  OF the 5 fidonet boards in
town then all sysops shared information freely about problem users.  HE made
the list first try.

Regards,
           Richard
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 * Origin:  (1:116/901)