Text 19946, 85 rader
Skriven 2011-06-15 11:39:01 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: What are we talking about now?
======================================
Hello Robert,

On Tuesday June 14 2011 07:35, you wrote to me:

 RB> I mentioned the differences in mentality in one of my messages. That
 RB> was something that was apparent to me many years ago, and
 RB> unfortunately continues.

Don't expect anything to change in the foreseeable future. It is not that the
Europeans won't fight at all, they do when they must, but only if all other
means have been exhausted. The many wars in the past have learned them to be
extremely reluctant. And rightly so.

 RB> The Europeans are good on diplomacy and weak on action. The Americans
 RB> are the reverse.

The Americans are good at getting themselves involved in action. When it comes
to getting themselves out of it, the track record does not look so good. How
many of those actions in the last 50 years have been a success? Success in the
sense that it provided a stable long term solution to a problem without causing
a new problem elsewhere. How many? Vietnam obviously was not a success. The
many interventions in Haiti have led nowhere. Somalia was a disaster.
Afghanistan and Iraq? It started out as revenge for 9/11. 9/11 was a result of
bad relations with the Muslim world. Have the actions in Afghanistan and Iraq
led to better relations between the US and the Muslim world? I think you can
answer that yourself.

Face it Bob, the Americans are not good at all in action, when you look at the
success rate of those actions.

 RB>>> Drop it, and the other side will too.

 MV>> I have been silent for almost a week. The Ross started a new fire
 MV>> over NATO.

 RB> Which I replied to.

A VERY mild reply compared to what you say to Björn...

 RB>>> supposedly intelligent people who happen to live in different
 RB>>> countries.

 MV>> Tell it to Roy and Ross.

 RB> I tell it to all of you.

No, you don't.

 MV>> I was not joking. I really have no idea who Peter Minuit is. I
 MV>> suppose Wikipedia could give me an answer, but why bother?

 RB> Indeed. But I assume you know what New York is? If you're going to
 RB> criticize the States so much and use historical material to support
 RB> that, you really should inform yourself more thoroughly about American
 RB> history.

I do not have to delve into all the details of what happened hundreds of years
ago.

For you it is the history of the country where you were born. For me it is the
history of one of the many countries in the world. Too many countries to know
all the details...

 RB> Peter Minuit was the Dutchman who bought the island of Manhatten
 RB> (later New Amsterdam and still later New York) from the Indians for -
 RB> it's claimed - the equivalent of $24 worth of trade goods

Oh that. I just forgot the name, I know of the incident.

 RB>  (the claim was, I believe, advanced sometime in the 1920s, so that
 RB> $24 would naturally be more nowadays).

In our history books, the amount is 60 Guilders.

 RB>  Some people think he cheated the Indians, although the land wasn't
 RB> used by them at the time.

Given the fact that the old indians did not consider land something that can be
owned, there definitely was something fishy about the deal.


Cheers, Michiel

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