Text 20726, 154 rader
Skriven 2011-07-13 12:54:18 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
  Kommentar till text 20699 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Vicious comments
========================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Wednesday July 13 2011 at 00:36:

I'm disappopinted in you, Michiel. You seem not to understand that there is
never a fight without _two_ sides being involved.

And you seem to expect help from me retroactively, which is an impossibility. 
RB>> You have a long memory.

MV> No, I don't. As I wrote before, it would have been forgotten long ago,
MV> if it had stopped then and there. But it didn't. They just kept
MV> rubbing it in and that makes it hard to forget.

Just like Bjorn's constant digs, which provoke more from the other side. You,
Bjorn and Ward never tired of telling everyone how bad the USA was and is. Ever
think about how you'd react if the same was in _every_ message to you, but
relating to _your_ country?

And don't try to claim that was the case, since I've been reading this echo for
a long time too. It wasn't, but the anti-american digs were.

MV>>> That was before, WAY BEFORE, Björn became Fidonews editor.

RB>> Frankly, I doubt that, as - if I remember correctly - such epitaphs
RB>> came in the wake of the European protests against the Iraq invasion.

MV> No. The "pissant little country" came in the wake of the The Hague
MV> Invasion Act.

Which was unbelieveablly exaggerated by you and yours. Nobody in the States
took that seriously, most people probably don't even know what you're talking
about, but you're beating that dead horse to this day. Move on.

MV> What can not be disputed is that it was BEFORE Björn took the hat.

All hail to the chief. Big deal.

MV>>> I did not hear from you then...

I'm not even sure I was reading the echo in those days, but if so, I thought
the affair was greatly exaggerated, the anger a bit artificial. And the fact
that we're even talking about such things now is really ridiculous.

RB>> I don't look for insults the way you apparently do

MV> Except of course when they are directed at you or yours...

And we're different in that respect? C'mon, get real. When did you start
defending _me_ against the libel Bjorn has been spouting? Two can play that
game.

RB>> - and I distinguish between such general things and direct personal
RB>> insults, which are _not_ general or accidental, but are intended to
RB>> denigrate and hurt.

MV> The "pissant little country" was not accidental and it certainly was
MV> intended to denigrate and hurt.

Not you personally. That's the difference. Don't wear the shoe if it doesn't
fit - but you apparently crammed it onto your foot even if that hurt.

I also seem to remember this particular episode was the result of some
left-wing Europeans wanting to haul top US military before the Hague court for
imagined "crimes against humanity" - a pretty transparent anti-american ploy.
Naturally, there was never a similar drive to bring others, such as Cambodians,
Vietnamese, Iranians or any others before the court, although the justification
would also have been possible.

MV> But you remained silent. Even worse, you consider Ry humorous.

Indeed. I think he often has humor, in contrast to the bloody seriousness I
often see in some others here. His insults are often so outrageously
exaggerated - the core of humor - that I have to laugh at them. You could do
worse than to relax and not take things that are even years past so seriously.

RB>> When they come from someone who styles himself a moderator, the case
RB>> is even worse. That shouldn't _ever_ happen - and if it does, the
RB>> so-called moderator should be removed immediately, and a competent
RB>> person put in his place.

MV> Did you miss that Ross is the supposedly Z1 moderator here? Does it
MV> not apply to him too?

Of course, but you allow yourself to be baited, too. And not that rarely
either. Should Ross not react to what I personally consider blood insults by
Bjorn? If Bjorn were at least a normal echo participant, I think I could accept
his abrasive style better. But he claims to be moderator, and that is something
I can't accept.

RB>> Aside from which, I note that you, Bjorn and even Ward in days past
RB>> have given as good as you took - the word "warmonger" is burned into
RB>> my memory.

MV> You do not think "warmonger" is a tailored response to "Euro trash
MV> shit pig pacifist pussy"? Or should it have been: "Stinking yankee
MV> trigger happy cowboy war mongering masochist schoolyard bully jerks"?

Let's just say, I've seen a good deal more "warmonger" here than any of the
others. And worst still, from people I thought reasonable, but who apparently
have burned out a fuse at some point.

RB>> So don't play the victim now, it isn't convincing.

MV> Don't put me in the role of the agressor, it is not convincing.

So what do you call these anti-american attacks? And I naturally address this
at Bjorn in the main, since in his case, there really is no excuse. A moderator
is there to moderate, not to inflame.

RB>> P.S. Please also note that I do NOT term you an "idiot", "senile",
RB>> "stupid", "childish" or anything of the kind.

MV> And neither have I. I have to admit that in the case of Roy I have
MV> been tempted..

I intentionally picked a few of the terms Bjorn has used on me because I was
curious to see if you might realize that.

But unsurprisingly, you only considered your own situation. So why do you
expect anyone to come to your defense when you don't reciprocate?

As for Roy, you take him too seriously and apparently can't understand the
humor. That's not surprising - humor is a cultural thing - but all I can say is
that he rarely shows the kind of bloody seriousness in his insults that I've
seen from Bjorn.

RB>> That kind of thing is Bjorn's specialty.

MV> He is just an apprentice. Roy and Ross are the masters.

Tell it to someone else. Roy is a special case, but Ross is just reacting. To
Bjorn. I've had my fill of Bjorn, too, but I try to control my reactions,
although that's quite difficult at times.

RB>> I may disagree with you in some things, even very much so, but that
RB>> doesn't affect my estimation of you as a person in the least. If
RB>> Bjorn could restrain himself and act similarly, there would be much
RB>> fewer problems in this echo.

MV> Tell it to Ross and Roy too and it would add to your credibility.

I don't have to prove my intents to you or anyone else, Michiel. If you don't
like the way I write here, you don't have to read my posts. But I'm not the
moderator here and see no reason to lambaste everyone around because you happen
to think what they wrote 10 years ago was not in order.

As for the rest, calm Bjorn down and you'd do all of us a world of good. I
personally would like to get back to some serious discussion. And by "serious",
I do NOT!!! mean a never-ending tapeworm about non-ASCII characters in an
English-language echo.

Cheers, Bob

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