Text 20759, 153 rader
Skriven 2011-07-14 12:31:56 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
  Kommentar till text 20673 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Vicious comments
========================
Hello Robert,

On Tuesday July 12 2011 14:19, you wrote to me:

 JD>>> and lately harping on one person only.

 MV>> Action is reaction. Bob is concentrating his aim at Björn.

 RB> Except for one thing. I don't call names, and didn't start this
 RB> business.

You don't call names and you did not start this. But you certainly help in
keeping it going by zooming in on Björn and condemning him for everything he
says that you do not like.

 RB> I also don't adhere to the doctrine of "the enemy of my enemy is my
 RB> friend".

Neither do I.

 RB> I'd appreciate it if you'd stop your present love affair with Bjorn
 RB> and get back to some worthwhile subject.

But if you don't adhere to that doctrine, why do you project it on me? And why
do you completely ignore the venom coming from Ross?

It would help your credibility if you would practise what you preach and really
did look at it from both sides. You may have missed the bucket of venom that
Ross poured over Lee. So as a courtesy to you and others who missed it, you can
read it here: http://www.vlist.eu/downloads/rosstolee.txt

Lee may be a kook, but after reading the above, can you honestly say that
response was justified? Do you honestly believe you can retain your credibility
as a neutral observer if you keep on harping on Björn and ignore the venom
coming from Ross?

 RB> There are plenty around - I mentioned one, but the non-ASCII
 RB> characters are apparently more important to you than the future of the
 RB> Euro or the EU.

Freedom of speech implies the freedom to remain silent. If people do not want
to discuss a certain subject, then they don't, it is as simple as that.

Some countries that should never have been there in the first place may be
kicked out of the EURO zone? So what? If I were really worried aboy financial
matters, the situation in the US would worry me a lot more. The US rating being
degraded and no solution for the ver rising US debt. I'd be worried what
happens when the Chinese decide it is time to call in o the debt...

 MV>> When was the last time you saw me write a personal insult?

 RB> You? Never. But nobody can consider you as an isolated case as long as
 RB> you throw in your lot with Bjorn. Ever heard of guilt by association?
 RB> It's not that rare.

I do not "throw in my lot" with Björn. I am merely pointing out that your
demonising does not help. Maybe it would be better if you put him in your twit
filter and simply ignored Björn for a couple of month. And if you believe in
guilt by association, you might want to consider how the relation between you
and Ross and Roy looks like to the rest of the participants...

 MV>> Also: Ross claimed to be the Z1 moderator here. Does the same then
 MV>> not apply to him?

 RB> Of course.

The why do you remain silent when Ross calls people names?

 RB> However, there is a slight difference, as Bjorn does out of
 RB> his way to start fights, whereas Ross reacts to provocations. You
 RB> should easily understand the distinction.

Of course I understand that. With the difference that to me it looks the other
way around. It is the others that start the fights and it is Björn who
responds in kind.

 MV>> Funny. We ( European) are constantly being harped upon for being
 MV>> pacificts. For not shooting back when shot at. And now that we -
 MV>> after fifteen years of swollowing insults, we are finally
 MV>> returning some fire, we are harped for *that*.

 RB> You want to have a pat on the back?

No, I am just pointing out that apparently, we can't do it right no matter
what. If we do not fight back, we are euro trash shit pig pacifist pussies. If
we do fight back, we are the aggressors that always start fights. We are damned
if we do and we are damned if we don't.

 RB>  And "15 years of insults"?

YES!!!!!!

 RB> Frankly, that sound paranoid and is hardly believeable.

Then don't believe it. Fact is that I perceive it that way.

 RB> Sounds like the kind of stuff we heard from the Serbs during the 1990s
 RB> - always the victims, never the aggresssors.

If you want to drag the Serbs in, you may want to reconsider your love affair
with mr Wilders and the likes of him. The Serbs were doing what Geert Wilders,
Jörg Haider and Philip the Winter have been advocating: get rid of all
Muslims.

 RB> Not many people bought that either. A little amnesia for stuff far in
 RB> the past isn't the worst thing that could happen to a person.

I keep saying it: it would have been forgotten long ago, if it had stopped then
and there. But it didn't. And you are not helping.

 MV>> Or does the "shoot back when being shot at" not apply when the
 MV>> shooter wears a stars and stripes hat?

 RB> Nice. Thanks for the Bjorn-typical dig. I only regret the increasing
 RB> similarity. This really isn't your style.

I am merely saying it as I see it. And to me it does indeed look like we are
sisies if we do not fight back when attacked, except when the attack comes form
someone from a certain country, then we are supposed to just rol over and die.

 JD>>> Who is going to moderate the moderator?

 MV>> The users who vote with their feet. (That, at least has always
 MV>> been the Z1 POV).

 RB> Why restrict it to Z1,

Because that is what I have been led to believe by them.

 RB> when you have no idea what happened in Z2, specifically R24? Michiel,
 RB> you're blind on one eye. Wake up. Do you really want an echo with only
 RB> two people in the end: you and Bjorn?

You think cases like HH were limited to R24? Wake up man! We had our fair share
of renegade moderators in R28 too. Ever heard of A. Kruijff? I suppose not, but
I can assure you, that was no fun and he was not the only one.

But we left all that behind us. Moderators no longer have the means to kick out
a user at whim. In the past, a moderator could do as he/she dammed well pleased
if he had the support of the selected few that controlled the distribtion.
Those days are over, there is no way to "control" distribution any more. Be
thankful for that. The days that FidoNet could be run as a  polyarchie are
over.

 RB> Nothing else worth commenting. I really regret the way things are
 RB> developing,

Then consider your own role. You are throwing oil on the fire.

Cheers, Michiel

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