Text 23073, 87 rader
Skriven 2011-11-25 15:38:42 av Nicholas Boel (2420.fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 23063 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
Ärende: See what I mean...read the bottom line
==============================================
  Re: See what I mean...read the bottom line
  By: Roy Witt to Nicholas Boel on Thu Nov 24 2011 11:09 am

 >  NB> The only time a non-union company meets our pay scale, is on a
 >  NB> prevailing wage job

 > That's odd. I quit a union (IAM) pay-scale job to take a non-union job at
 > the same amount of wages. Their benefit package was identical too.

Again, you're referring to shop hands here. I'm referring to the building
trades. I quit a non-union HVAC and sheet metal company after finding out where
I was at after 7 years is pretty much where you stay. I started my
apprenticeship with a $2/hr paycut only to be making $10/hr more than what I
did there after 3 years. This goes the same for most carpenters, electricians,
plumbers/pipe fitters, boilermakers and ironworkers.

 > If you work for a company that wants to discourage unionization, they will
 > pay equal to any union shop and offer an equal benefit package as well.

True for shops. In the building trades, it's more of a competition as far as
non-union paying their employees half of what we make, so they're usually able
to WAY underbid the jobs in order to get them. We have to come in, get the job
done in a quarter of the time, with a quarter of the manpower. It seems we're
doing a great job at this so far. :)

 > I can only relate to those I have or my friends have experience with. A
 > gas station I worked part time at while an apprentice contracted with the
 > county to provide gasoline and lubrication services...what did Eddie do to
 > get that contract? I don't have a clue. But I know he was in that station
 > a long time and never lost that contract, even though there were multiple
 > stations vying for that contract when it was offered for bid, every year.

..and this is why my first question to you both was if you were against _all_
unions. What people don't understand is that all unions may have the same
sway when it comes to election time, but the inner working are completely
different between them.

So it's a good thing you know the workings of shop unions, since I don't have
any experience with it (granted my brother-in-law just got a job at P&H, which
is a union shop here in WI), and I have my whole life around building trades
(even my step-father was a union laborer). Comparing notes will clue us in on
both sides of the spectrum. 

Granted, gas stations I know nothing about. :)

 > I was taught by my parents to buy American. That doesn't mean that I had
 > to buy American if I didn't want to, but I want to.

Same here. That's the only way we're going to keep people working here. What
sucks is that the majority of people either don't realize that, or just plain
don't care.

 >  NB> You do know that non-union factories and shops are, just as much,
 >  NB> oursourcing their work to other countries, right?

 > Yeup. Micro Switch, the company I apprenticed at has a facility across the
 > border from El Paso in Mexico. My late uncle was sent there, c1968, to
 > facilitate the opening of that plant.

Basically, what I was getting at there was that it's not always the unions'
fault for losing American workers.

 > I think Micro was taking advantage of NAFTA, which was supposed to be
 > advantagess to the employer who wanted cheap labor which in exchange the
 > Mexican people got employment. Something that would have kept the Mexicans
 > in Mexico, had it been a success.

Sure it would have kept the Mexicans in Mexico, as well as other people in
their respective countries. It also was a big player in Americans losing jobs.
Wasn't that signed in by Clinton?

See? Both sides of politics suck. :)

 > Your union probably realizes that asking for more pay and benefits
 > wouldn't do anything to help working conditions for you, plus keep jobs in
 > the country.

We've actually been doing pretty good up until the recession. I believe we got
$2 every year for 5 years (not all on our check, of course). Then our last
contract negotiation we took a freeze, but didn't lose anything. Can't really
complain about that when the economy got (and is) as bad as it's been.

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