Text 25029, 188 rader
Skriven 2012-01-31 23:59:17 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 24912 av Andrew Leary (1:320/119)
Ärende: Wannensee Conference
============================
Hello Andrew,

 LL>> Policy (P4) says that any FidoNet sysop who ignores Policy (P4)
 LL>> is automatically excommunicated from FidoNet.

 AL>> Really?

 LL>> Yep.

AL>Not unless your copy of Policy 4 is different than mine.

My copy is the official version, not your fake version.

Version 4.07
June 9, 1989

"This policy document has been accepted by vote of the FidoNet
coordinator structure, and is the current FidoNet policy document
until superceded."

 AL>> The only automatic excommunication I see in Policy 4.07 is removal
 AL>> because your coordinator was unable to contact you.

 LL>> I live in the swamp.  As such, I am a bit difficult to contact.
 LL>> Except for alligators.  And nutria.  And other critters.  In which
 LL>> case, I usually find them before they find me.

 LL>> 2.1.12 Excommunication

 LL>> I am sure you can find the relevant portions relevant to
 LL>> automatic excommunication.

AL>Again, the only automatic excommunication is if your coordinator is
AL>unable to contact you.

As well as when a FidoNet sysop fails to abide by "this document
(P4) and all the current policies of FidoNet."

AL>I quote:

 AL> === Cut ===

 AL> 2.1.12  Excommunication

 AL> A system which has been dropped from the network is said to be
 AL> excommunicated
 AL> (i.e. denied communication).  If you find that you have been
excommunicated
 AL> without warning, your coordinator was unable to contact you.  You should
 AL> rectify the problem and contact your coordinator.

 AL> Systems may also be dropped from the nodelist for cause.  See section 9,
 AL> and
 AL> sections 4.3 and 5.2.

 AL> It is considered annoying behavior to assist a system which was excommuni-
 AL> cated in circumventing that removal from the nodelist.  For example, if
you
 AL> decide to provide an echomail feed to your friend who has been excommuni-
 AL> cated, it is likely that your listing will also be removed.

 AL> === Cut ===

 AL> Sections 4.3 and 5.2 allow Network Coordinators and Regional Coordinators
 AL> respectively to take action if a node in their Net/Region is acting in a
 AL> sufficiently annoying manner.  Section 9 (Resolution of Disputes) is the
 AL> only remaining option, and this is *NOT* automatic.

Failing to abide by "this document (P4) and all the current policies
of FidoNet" is grounds for automatic excommunication.  No need for
anybody to file a policy complaint, as the individual in question had
excommunicated himself/herself by his/her own action(s).

 AL>> Please quote the specific section(s) of Policy 4.07 that specify
 AL>> this.  In Section 2.2 (Applying for a Node Number), you are
 AL>> required to provide your name, but there does not appear to be
 AL>> anything saying that you cannot use an alias.

"Your name" is in reference to "Your real name" - NOT A FAKE NAME.

 LL>> 1) Your name.

AL>This does not specify that you must use your real name.

Whether stated or implied, the meaning is clear that one *must*
use his/her *real* name when applying to become a FidoNet sysop.
Note the word *must* in P4 itself, just prior to the list of
those eight items.

AL>Common interpretation assumes that, but legally there is nothing
AL>that specifies it.

"This policy document has been accepted by vote of the FidoNet
coordinator structure, and is the current FidoNet policy document
until superceded."

That statement makes this policy document (P4) a legal document
mandating that *all* individuals who apply to become a FidoNet sysop
*must* use their real name.

 LL>> You must indicate that you have read, and agree to abide by, this
 LL>> document and all the current policies of FidoNet.

 LL>> Notice the word *must*.

 LL>> The very first thing an applicant *must* do is use his/her real name.
 LL>> No exceptions.  If an applicant uses a fake name as being his real
 LL>> name, then that application *must* be rejected.  No exceptions.

AL>First of all, the Policy doesn't say that exactly.

What part of the word *must* do you not understand?

AL>Second, how would Network or Regional Coordinators enforce this?

Independent verification.  If the information provided by the applicant
cannot be independently verified as being true, the application *must*
be rejected.  In which case, the application goes in the trash bin.

AL>If an applicant uses a name that is not obviously fake, there is
AL>simply no way to determine that, unless applicants are required to
AL>supply a copy of their ID.

Millions of people use a fake drivers license, a fake voters
registration card, a fake library card, a fake whatever else there
is?  Nothing can be independently verified as being true?  First of
all, people aren't that smart.  Nor do people want to go through
that kind of trouble, unless they have something to hide.  As such,
I do not believe you know what you are talking about.  :)

AL>Even this could be easily circumvented by using a fake ID
AL>or someone else's ID.

Why would anybody want to go through all that trouble?  Unless
they have something to hide, it really is not necessary.  And
if somebody does have something to hide, that individual has
no business being here in the first place.  So what's your beef?

 LL>> There is an actual individual behind the fake name being used
 LL>> to post messages.  When applying to become a FidoNet sysop, that
 LL>> applicant *must* use his/her real name.  If an individual fails
 LL>> to do that, his/her application *must* be rejected.

AL>See above.

And yet the Ice Queen chose to ignore policy (P4).

 LL>> According to the Ice Queen, sysops can use a fake name as their real
 LL>> name in all echoes regardless of what any moderator says.  In fact,
 LL>> according to the Ice Queen, sysops can use a fake name as their real
 LL>> name in applying to become a FidoNet sysop (in direct violation of
 LL>> P4). In addition, according to the Ice Queen, moderators can use a
 LL>> fake name as their real name in all echoes regardless of what any
 LL>> sysop or other moderator says.

AL>>Lee, I would be very interested in seeing the messages where she
AL>said this.

Her exact words were that an applicant "should" use his/her real name.
Even though P4 clearly states an applicant *must* use his/her real name.

AL>However, since this is *NOT* directly related to articles in
AL>FidoNews, I request that you supply these via NetMail.

Actually, this *is* related to articles in the Fidonews, as noted
in my last post -

4.5 Making Available Policies, Nodelists and FidoNews

[..]

Policy, FidoNews, and the nodelist are the glue that holds us together.
Without them, we would cease to be a community, and become just another
random collection of bulletin boards.

I do welcome correspondence via NetMail.  Except in general
conversation, any and all comments made via NetMail will be kept
confidential, the same as most folks in the FidoVerse do.

Come to think of it, I kinda like the name FidoVerse.
A new magazine/newsletter dedicated to poetry, along with
poetry composed by all the poets in FidoNet.  The question
is, who wants to be the first editor?

--Lee

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 * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)