Text 25213, 113 rader
Skriven 2012-02-11 21:45:31 av Richard Webb (1:116/901.0)
  Kommentar till text 25210 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
Ärende: Facebook
================
HI Roy,

On Sat 2012-Feb-11 06:38, Roy Witt (1:387/22) wrote to Richard Webb:

 Roy>> The FCC has ordered broadcasters to discontinue to raise the volume
 Roy>> during commercials. Forget when that's supposed to take affect, it
 Roy>> will be in 2012. That will help a great deal to silence them to at
 Roy>> least the same level as regular programming.

 RW> YEah I know, last I read the engineers (audio type) were
 RW> still sort of battling with them to get rules defined in
 RW> such a way that they can be complied with.

Roy> Wish they'd do that for Amateur Radio. Some of them sound like CBers
Roy> who use mics that can overdrive modulation or reverberation.

yEah I know, but the real trouble with those guys is again
running the compression wide open along with the gain up, or using regular
audio signal processing gear such as you'd
find in the studio or on a live sound reinforcement rig, and not understanding
all the settings.  Whereas the compressor
in your garden variety KEnwood Yaesu or Icom is pretty much
preset for attack release, etc. unless you take the clothes
off the radio and tweak these outboard units have too many
controls that the user can tweak.  If you don't understand
what they do, and aren't watching your transmitted waveform
on a scope you can get in big trouble.

 RW> What people forget is that it ain't the "level" itself, but
 RW> average level that's the kicker here.

Roy> What's wrong with 100% and no more?

Ah here we go.  LEt's take your average television program,
such as a movie.  lEt's say, just for round numbers, that
the movie averages around 85% modulation, an occasional peak at 100% but pretty
much everything sits around 85.

NOw, what they do with that commercial is make it average at let's say 90% or
even 95% a lot less difference between peak and average level than the movie
you're watching.  That's
how it gets the mind to perceive it as louder.  Where that
movie's average is at 85% because some quiet parts are at
70%, normal dialogue in the 80's, sounds that are supposed
to be loud in the upper 90's that makes you average sit at
that 85% mark.

Sorry about the expression of it in a bit different terms,
but this is one thing I want folks to understand is that the law won't give
them the sort of protection they think it
will, unless the fcc actually talks to the engineering types about
implementation.
Jump over to google, have it look at usenet newsgroups, and
do a search in the group rec.audio.pro on the term "loudness war" or have a
look at the faq for that newsgroup, which
should be available on Janis's system as rap-faq.zip in area ep-ascii.

That'll explain it a bit more.

<snip>

Roy> Some used car sellers must be using audio compression and what
Roy> sounds like reverberators. The mute button on the remote makes them
Roy> sound much better.

Oh yeah, compression at a high ratio, and lots of reverb
too.

<snip again>
 RW> NOw the commercial comes on, and they squeeze the crap out of it  so
 RW> that it's still at -25dbfs, just as is the program, but now the peaks
 RW> are at -20, or even -18 but most of the audio is right at that
 RW> -25dbfs target, it's still apparently louder to your ears.

RW> Which the mute button takes care of very nicely. We use the mute
RW> button a lot around here so that we can discuss the program and
RW> where it's going from here. Or what was on the agenda for today,
RW> etc..

YEah I know, but this is one thing that the actual
regulators are going to have to talk over with the
production people, because by the time you get the
commercial to play on air it's already been produced to be
highly compressed.


YOu know, it's funny, but I've worked with artists who want
me to do the same sort of thing, as it's common practice in
the recording industry to do the same sort of thing they do
with the commercials.  I've had people come back to me
because they wanted a special "radio mix" of a couple of
tunes to have the host play when they went on somebody's
show.  I've told them to leave it alone, let the dynamics of the music give it
its impact.  The processing the station
uses to keep within that 100% ceiling will for the most part leave it alone
that way, and it'll have more impact to the
listeners, because it will stand out from the rest of the
stuff the listener is hearing, which is highly compressed.
Different in this case stands out, which is waht the
commercials you hear on the tube are going for.  iT's all
about the contrast.

IN fact, old audio engineers tell stories about the loudness war way back in
the early '60's, especially in 45 rpm
records destined for the jukebox market.  Sometimes they'd
cut 'em so hot the tone arm couldn't stay in the groove!

so about the pedantic guys, back to your regularly scheduled program <g>.

Regards,
           Richard
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 * Origin:  (1:116/901)