Text 26907, 164 rader
Skriven 2012-03-17 16:32:15 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
  Kommentar till text 26855 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: Nicholas Kill's name
============================
17 Mar 12 09:26, Robert Bashe wrote to Roy Witt:

 RB> Roy Witt wrote to Robert Bashe on Friday March 16 2012 at 06:02:

 RB>>> And I still use regular checks (for my account) to pay people I
 RB>>> don't like and want to cause a lot of trouble to, such as the
 RB>>> income tax office ;-)

 RW>> That doesn't work here. The 'Check 21 Act' of 2003, effective the
 RW>> following year allows the recipient of the original paper check to
 RW>> create a digital version of the original check (called a "substitute
 RW>> check"), thereby eliminating the need for further handling of the
 RW>> physical document.

 RB> I was talking about the trouble a recipient has to transport a paper
 RB> check to the bank and the time it takes to clear, not about the
 RB> processing time in the bank.

The Check 21 Act doesn't require the recipient to transport anything to a
bank. Once they enter the electronic check transformation software and
enter your banks routing number and your account number into the system,
the money transfer is instantanious. The paper check goes into the
shredder. That is after they electronically photograph it. This photo is
also transfered to your bank. Your bank then puts the photo up for you to
see on your computer visit to your account. The photo will  include the
payee's information and what bank and the account # the money was
transferred to.

 RB> A "normal" payment here simply appears as a credit in your account
 RB> max. 3 days (and often sooner) after the transfer was initiated at
 RB> the payer's bank (in future the EU plans to cut the allowable time to
 RB> only _one_ day). You have immediate and full use of the money.

You should have immediate access to it when it arrives in your account.

 RB> When I send a check, the recipient first has to physically process
 RB> it, get it to the bank, and then the money is credited to his account

Such an ancient banking system. And here you thought the Euro banking
system was some how superior to the American system.

 RB> - but with a proviso that the sum will be debited to the account if
 RB> the check bounces. You only get full, unlimited use of the money 10
 RB> days after the check has been deposited.

LOL! Such an ancient banking system.

 RB> A direct account transfer is simple, fast and requires no action by
 RB> the recipient. If I send a check, he has the hassle of dealing with a
 RB> paper check, plus the disadvantage that he doesn't have full,
 RB> unlimited use of the money until a few days after the deposit.

Such an ancient banking system.

 RW>> Once this occurs, the funds are transferred from your account to the
 RW>> payee electronically.

 RB> I'm aware of the system, but the disadvantage is that you still have
 RB> to send a _paper_ check through the mail (several days delivery time)

This is part of the 'punish the payee' syndrome that Check 21 diverts to
no punishment at all, by instant electronic transfer of payment.

 RB> and the recipient still has to cash it and wait for the check to
 RB> clear. This isn't comparable to the direct account transfer system we
 RB> use here.

Such an ancient banking system.

 RB>>> In Germany, the law is that a bill is considered paid the minute
 RB>>> you send the check, not when it is cashed and the money deposited
 RB>>> to the recipient's account.

 RW>> Hmmm. I wonder if there is such a law here. This is worth looking
 RW>> into because I have one bill that is considered late on the 10th and
 RW>> that's usually the day that I send out checks.

 RB> I doubt if there's such a law in the States, but you could check.

This means that I will have to step into the bank twice in one month.
They'll be stunned!

 RB> But you point out still another matter - you have to make out paper
 RB> checks, get them into an envelope and pay postage to get them mailed
 RB> (or have your bank do this for you, so-called "Internet payment"
 RB> which doesn't have much to do with the Internet at all).

That is a choice that I make, not a rule of thumb to judge the American
banking system by. As I explained elsewhere to you, I do this out of
choice over the https:// (secure my ass), system...

 RB> All I have to do is use a home banking program to make out an account
 RB> transfer slip and send it off via the Internet to the bank computer.
 RB> Never have to leave my chair behind the monitor to do that, and so I
 RB> pay my bills as they arrive.

Too bad too. You could probably use the excercise in making the trip to
your postal box at the curb, or on your porch. Or don't they pickup out
going mail in Germany?

 RB> Or I set up an automatic payment on such
 RB> and such a day of each month (or every quarter, or on a specific day)
 RB> for recurring payments, and can then forget the affair. Or I can also
 RB> allow the payee to directly withdraw the payment from my account,
 RB> something that is very popular here (by law, you can reverse the
 RB> debit without giving a reason for up to 6 weeks after it is made, and
 RB> the payee has to foot the bill), but that I don't care for since I
 RB> like to do my banking myself.

I refuse to allow that to happen, simply because they will take the money
out, or attempt to at their leisure instead of mine. i.e. They want it on
the 1st, I don't want them to have it until the 2nd Wednesday of each
month.

 RB>>> In contrast, a bill is only considered paid when the money is
 RB>>> credited to the recipient's account if you use an
 RB>>> account-to-account transfer. Naturally the law is obsolete, but it
 RB>>> still applies here.

 RW>> If that applies to an electronic transfer as outlined above (Check
 RW>> 21), then that is the same day the paper check is processed by the
 RW>> payee.

 RB> Not quite. First, the payee has to receive the check. Then - cursing
 RB> me for the inconvenience ;-) - he has to process the check in his
 RB> accounting.

This is where the banking systems of the EU v US end.

 RB> Then he has to send the check to his bank. Then there's a 10-day
 RB> period in which he has no full, unlimited access to the money.

This is where the two systems differ. Check 21 allows the recipient to
change the paper into an instantanious electronic payment. There is no one
in between the recipient and the bank.

 RB> When the alternative is a direct account transfer, the extra effort
 RB> required is irksome - but checks are still allowed as payment in
 RB> Germany, and are very occasionally used (but only very rarely by
 RB> private persons).

See above.

 RW>> i.e. electronic transfer from account to account...

 RB> Only after the check has arrived at the payee. In the direct acount
 RB> transfer, nothing ever has to be on paper, and there is no time lost
 RB> sending a check through the mail.

If one prefers a time-loss, that is the best route to follow. It doesn't
negate the fact that a paper check may be used to instantly transfer
payment within a few minutes of processing time once it is in the hands of
the payee.


                R\%/itt


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