Text 27310, 88 rader
Skriven 2012-03-27 18:08:01 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 27263 av Ardith Hinton (1:153/7715.0)
Ärende: Once Upon a Time
========================
Hello Ardith,

 LL>> addressing male folk "mr. firstname" would be seen
 LL>> as highly offensive.

 BJ>> It seems like other (Commonwealth) English speakers
 BJ>> are of the same opinion.

 AH> Yes, I understand Paul's concern about using this form of address in
 AH> adult-to-adult discussion.  There is a very fine line between friendly
 AH> intimacy & rudeness which varies from time to time & place to place.  I
 AH> wouldn't attempt to get away with writing as the Aussies here write to one
 AH> another... [chuckle].

There are cultural differences within the US, especially in regards
to Southern mannerisms and etiquette, much of which stems from the
times of slavery and segregation.  There is even a great deal of
difference between Southern blacks and Northern blacks, apart from
whites in general.

 DD>> I was under the impression that it was used to address
 DD>> persons of higher status than one's self

 AH> That's my take on it.  I know a Boy Scout leader... born & raised in BC,
 AH> Canada... who encourages kids to address him that way.  Mark has offered
an
 AH> example of family friends (possibly a married couple?) whom he knew when
he
 AH> was growing up.  Roy has offered examples involving younger folks who
 AH> evidently see him as being about the same age as their parents or
 AH> grandparents.  In each case the informality of using the first name, as
one
 AH> might with one's peers, is okay as long as the kids show respect for their
 AH> elders by adding an honorific.  When I was growing up I had a lot of
 AH> "aunts" & "uncles" for similar reasons....  ;-)

Culturally, one can say there are nine or ten different "countries"
within the USA, each with their own ways or traditions.  But is a
culture part of a society, or is society part of a culture?  The way
I look at things, society is part of a culture, although society is
always trying to make a culture part of that society.

 DD>>  - as in a black slave addressing a free white person.

 AH> But now we've turned the clock back 100+ years just as Lee was doing
 AH> earlier.  Mark Twain... who described Canada & the US as "two countries
 AH> divided by a common language", and who was one of the first novelists to
 AH> use dialect in his writing... is probably a reliable witness.

Winston Churchill described Britain and the US as "two countries
divided by a common language" - although others may have also said
the same thing along similar lines.

 AH> Twain's HUCKLEBERRY FINN, while it is fiction, includes examples
indicating
 AH> that slaves may have addressed pre- pubescent males as "Mr. Firstname".

Only in private, out of earshot from everybody else.  And then
only with those they thought they could trust.

 AH> Jim addresses Huck as "Massa Huck" because although Jim is an adult his
 AH> socioeconomic status as a slave is lower than that of a street urchin
whose
 AH> father was "poor white trash".  If Huck had been free, white, *and* over
21
 AH> I imagine Jim would have called him "Mr. Surname"....  :-)

Mark Twain (the pen name Samuel Clemens used when writing satire/humor)
was very cutting and biting in his novel, "Huckleberry Finn", the novel
still being banned in some parts of the USA.  He used a play on words
with "Massa Huck", as Huck was a white child with no money from a poor
family, irony noted.

If a superior (white person, regardless of age) has established an
informal relationship then the use of first names is appropriate.  If
a relationship is formal (or unknown), then a gender-specific title is
absolutely necessary.  Every slave knows that, both good and bad.

In private, Huck and Jim could have referred to each other by first
name.  But in public, that would have been a definite no-no, and most
definitely hazardous to Jim's health and well-being.  Huck would most
likely simply have been castigated by his parents and ridiculed by
his friends and neighbors.

--Lee

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