Text 27403, 174 rader
Skriven 2012-03-29 12:06:35 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
  Kommentar till text 27364 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Fidonews Vol 29 No 09 February 27, 2012 Page: 2
=======================================================
29 Mar 12 13:42, Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Roy Witt:

 RW>>>> That was a precedent set long before I came along. ZC approved

 MvdV>                                                           ^^

 MvdV> Note "ZC approved".

ZC1, aka Bob Satti...

 MvdV>>> And by implication overruled by the IC's ruling.

 RW>> George Peace was the IC who approved of the precedent.

 MvdV> By your own words, it was not IC George Peace, but ZC George Peace
 MvdV> who approved.

Wrong. It was Bob Satti as ZC1 who approved it, IC George as IC accepted
that ruling and reported it as Z1 policy to the members of the ZCC at the
time...Dunno if Ward was ZC2 back then or his predecessor.

 RW>>  Ward overstepped his authority to rule against a former IC,

 MvdV> Anyway, a *C is not bound by the deciseons of his predecessor.

Janis (ZC1 twice removed from Satti) wasn't bound by it either, but she
upheld the precedent, as did her predicessor.

 RW>> without consulting the ZC on the precedents used in Z1.

 MvdV> There is and never was a need for that. *C's are not bound by
 MvdV> precence. Not in their own turf and not in that of others.

See above.

 RW>>  The aftermath of his own agenda in the PC as ZC2 AND IC was of his
 RW>> own making, which eventually caused his demise as the IC.

 MvdV> We all know what caused his demise as IC: the shenanigans pof the
 MvdV> Ice Queen.

Wrong. His shenanigans that he acted upon in an attempt to rid the network
of yours truely was the cause of his demise. Not to mentin that he went
off the deep end when that bowel movement failed to pass legitmate
inspection by the ZCC.

 MvdV>>> Problem with that is that very few outside Z1 believed that the
 MvdV>>> Ice Queen played fair.

 RW>> What outsiders believed is irrelevant,

 MvdV> Since this was a zone crossing issue, they were not outsiders.

What they had to say about it was as much hot air as the threat to 'yank'
my node number from the nodelist, as IC...

 MvdV>>> Reviving ZC6 from the dead... Oh c'mon, he was uncontactable
 MvdV>>> /except/ by routed mail via ZC1.

 RW>> None the less, he was contacted and not just by the ZC1...xxcarol
 RW>> was in contact with him as well.

 MvdV> Says who?

xxCarol...I think she's told you about that in every public echo at the
time, plus a few that only you and she shared, away from public view.

 RW>> And frankly, I'd believe what xxCarol has to say over anything Ward
 RW>> would have to say about it because she's not a liar in my book.

 MvdV> Hmmm... she may not be a rightout liar, but she has been known to
 MvdV> bend the truth a little bit now and then. In particular when it
 MvdV> came to the actuality and reliablity of the Z6 segment of the
 MvdV> nodelist.

I'd still believe her over Ward...she's as close to being THE honest
person than Ward ever thought of being.

 RW>> That he could't understand the broken English of a person with a
 RW>> European accent such as yours or Wards is understandable.

 MvdV> Bullshit. Ward and I have an accent, but it is not so bad that a
 MvdV> simple question like "do you speak English?"

LOL! I reiterate, Bullshit.

 MvdV>  is not undertandable for someone who presumably knows English well
 MvdV> enough to have read and understood P4.

There is the posibility that he had a copy that was translated into his
native tongue. As I recall, there was a Phillipino involved in Z6
administration that spoke English and several dialects of Chinese.

 MvdV>>> What credibility has that? Bin Lee was either a figment of
 MvdV>>> ZC1's imigination or he had no idea what it was all about.

 RW>> None the less, as the ZC6 he had a vote,

 MvdV> He never even qualified for grunt node status. He did not have a
 MvdV> FTN compatible mail server on-line. At best he ran a client that
 MvdV> could call out, but he could not receive incoming calls.

You were there and inspected his system, then?

 MvdV>>> The result is that interzonal coordination is dead because few
 MvdV>>> believe that when push comes to shove, ZC1 will play fair.

 RW>> RC10, ZC1 and the ZCC all played fair in accordance with precedence
 RW>> and procedures used in Z1.

 MvdV> This was an interzonal issue, so it should have been fair for all,
 MvdV> not just Z1.

Since there were 6 zones and 6 ZCs at the time and the vote was 4-1 with
one abstention, isn't that an interzonal vote on the issue?

To say that the ZC2 was unfairly out-voted on an interzonal issue by 5 of
his peers is ludicrous.

 MvdV>>> She will either cheat as happened in the appeal you mentioned
 MvdV>>> or she will revert to right of might as happened with FidoNews.

 MvdV>>> Oh well....

 RW>> Oh well...you win some and you lose some. Such is life.

 MvdV> The Ice Queen won the appeal. As the PC was an issue between two
 MvdV> sysops, the bare consequences of that victory were limited. Both in
 MvdV> scope and in time as the persons concerned have long ago removed
 MvdV> the issue from their agenda.

Since I had no right of appeal as the IC so ruled to the ZCC, she merely
stepped in and did it for me. Afterall, she had notified Ward in the ZCC
private echo that he was barking up the wrong tree before he made his
blindly stupid ruling.

 MvdV> She won the appeal, but she lost the trust that when push comes to
 MvdV> shove shove she will play fair.

As did Ward when he was discussinng before the ZCC of the issue of
Hitler's likeness being posted in FNS...he thought he could pull the
wool over everyone's eyes by stating that the Supreme Court of the state
of Montana had made a ruling against what had occured. He was so dumb that
he was going to call in the Simon Weisenthal Jewish support team to sue me
over it. He lost that one too.

 MvdV> Not only did she lose the trust then and there, it was confirmed
 MvdV> several times over, The last time when she instigated what led to
 MvdV> the FidoNews schism.

She didn't instigate it...she asked the question, there was a period of
time for opinions and replies and then the action taken was by one
individual. That she filtered the echo didn't sit well with me, but that
has been circumvented by the rude awakening by what happened next.

 MvdV> The damage of the loss of trust is far more reaching than the
 MvdV> issues that caused it because it affects all of Fidonet. I am
 MvdV> afraid the damage is permanent as the Ice Queen shows no signs of
 MvdV> remorse whatsoever and seems to have no intention of following up
 MvdV> on her election promise of holding a ZC1 election every two years.

That one has been faught and lost, probably a decade ago now. Many people
in that movement are lost to Fidonet forever...


                R\%/itt


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