Text 29295, 69 rader
Skriven 2012-05-31 00:18:04 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Janis Kracht (1:261/38)
Ärende: Janis defintions...
===========================
Hello Janis,

On Tuesday May 29 2012 23:53, you wrote to me:

 >> What you miss here is that "signing up" must be taken literally. The
 >> standard procedure is that one fills in a form, signs it with ink
 >> and sends the form by snail mail. Only THEN does it make a legally
 >> binding contract.

 JK> What YOU miss here is that Fidonet does not accept written legal
 JK> contracts :)

So, whatever was agreed is not legally binding.

 >> THERE IS NO IMPLICIT AGREEMENT.

 JK> By the language used in Policy 4, written in the English language,
 JK> which is the formal language of Fidonet, there certainly is.

Maybe in the legal system of the USA. Certainly not in the legal system of The
Netherlands. Local laws override  Fdionet policy.

 JK> Fidonet use a somewhat similar agreement that many Dutch web sites
 JK> use.. 'If you don't agree with the stated ToS, discontinue use of the
 JK> Web site'. No ink signature is used for goodness sake.

Those ToS's are not legally binding by Dutch law. It works to intimidate the
ignorant user. Also many webmasters are ignorant when it comes to legal matters
and they assume that such a barrier has legal status. It has not. When push
comes to shove, such as when I opened an account with the Dutch provider where
ftsc.org is registered, an ink signature was submitted by me to make it legally
binding.

 >> There is another reason why P4 can never be binding for Dutch
 >> citizens, even i it were signed in ink.

 >> A contract involving a private citizen - so not a company - MUST be
 >> in Dutch. contract with a customer in English is null and void here.

 JK> You agreed to use English when you accepted your nodenumber.

No, I did not. As I mentioned before, the matter was arranged over the
telephone. The conversation was conducted in Dutch of course. P4 was never
mentioned. All that we actually agreed on was the node number. The actual value
of the integer. Or to be more precise, I proposed number 555 and the NC agreed.
That was it.

Sidenote: Had I actuallly agreed to use English, it would have been
meaningless. Dutch law requires the use of Dutch for legally binding agreements
with individuals. An agreement to use a different language can not override
that. Even more: it makes any such agreement null and void.

 >> I did not "sign up".

 JK> You accepted your node number,

Yes. I entered it into my configuration and the NC entered it into the
nodelist. That was it.

Forget it Janis, this is going nowhere. I have stated my position and I have
nothing to add. Add a comment if you want, I will not respond to it any more.

EOT


Cheers, Michiel

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