Text 3261, 91 rader
Skriven 2010-01-18 11:48:08 av Lee Lofaso (3:800/432.0)
   Kommentar till text 3237 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: "Flying is the safest wa
================================
Hello Bob,

>RB>Incidentally, the Americans don't automatically take away your
>RB>American citizenship nowadays if you acquire foreign citizenship, as
>RB>dual citizenship is tolerated.

>LL>There is nothing in the US Constitution forbidding dual citizenship.
>LL>Therefore it is legal.

RB>Only because there is now a ruling by the Supreme Court.
RB>The Constitution doesn't detail the laws, that's for the
RB>courts to do.

The US Supreme Court is a court of writ.  As such, it only rules
on the constitutionality of matters.  And then, only matters of its
own choosing.

>RB>However, in the case you cite, the Germans do _not_ tolerate dual
>RB>citizanship unless acquired involuntarily (for example by marriage),
>RB>so an adult American can not acquire German citizenship without first
>RB>renouncing his American citizenship.

>LL>From a US viewpoint what Germany recognizes and does not recognize is
>LL>irrelevant.

RB>As is the Germen viewpoint, only in reverse.

Of course.  After all, German laws are for Germans.

>LL>An individual could claim that he/she was forced to renounce his/her
>LL>US citizenship in order to become a German citizen, in which case it
>LL>would be unconstitutional from an American perspective. Meaning the
>LL>individual would still be a US citizen.

RB>Total illusion. I've gone through the procedure and know
RB>the details. Anyone who tried to make such a claim would be
RB>laughed out of court in the States.

The acquisition of nationality does not necessarily mean one loses
the citizenship of one's birth.  There is such a thing as dual
citizenship.  And dual citizenship can be acquired in one of five
different ways.  Two forms are right of birth.  I am sure you are
quite familiar with both of those forms.  There is also naturalization
by residence, which is apparently the means you used in order to
acquire German citizenship.  It can also be earned by merit.  As
well as by purchase.  Yes, citizenship in some countries can be
bought.  For a price, of course.  In addition, you can also get
nationality by becoming a parent of a citizen in some countries.
That one is kind of neato.  Just find a willing woman, and sham
bang thank you ma'am!  No need to get married in some cases.
Just make a baby.  Sometimes you can get citizenship if you are
deemed a political or religious refugee.  Or the offspring of a
political or religious refugee.  Those are the most realistic
options.

There are also other ways.  I have merely named the most common ways.
Here are some lesser known methods.  You can do so by adoption.  Might
be kind of difficult if one is at an advanced age, but it is an option.
There is also legitimation, but who wants to admit being a bastard?  Or
simply recognition of paternity.  At least that way an individual would
not have to admit being a bastard.

RB>If you want to read the details, try:

RB>http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_776.html

It is very clear the United States does not like its citizens
to live abroad.  But that does not mean those Americans who choose
to live abroad lose their US citizenship, or are forced to lose
their US citizenship.  That is a misconception.

What I have been saying, and stressing, is that the actual loss
of citizenship is determined by the country of the original citizenship.
Not the country in which someone has moved or emigrated to.  Sure, it
may be true that Germany granted you German citizenship.  But it is
also true that Germany has no right to deny your own US citizenship.

THE ONLY DEFINITIVE RULING ON LOSS OF U.S. CITIZENSHIP IS MADE BY
THE STATE DEPARTMENT ISSUING A CERTIFICATE OF LOSS OF U.S. NATIONALITY.

Do you have in your possession such a certificate?  If not, then
you are in fact still a U.S. citizen.  In which case you get the last
laugh.  Don't you love it?

--Lee


 * SLMR 2.1a * Don't confuse me with the facts; my mind's made up.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: Xaragmata / Adelaide SA telnet://xaragmata.mooo.com (3:800/432)