Text 4135, 99 rader
Skriven 2010-01-31 10:23:08 av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
   Kommentar till text 4070 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Change in government
============================
Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Robert Bashe on Saturday January 30 2010 at
15:35:

RB>> Bombing without troops is not something that worries people (in the
RB>> States and elsewhere)

MV> Except of course for those at the receiving end. Surely you can
MV> understand those at the receiving end will be very pissed off.

Of course. However, there _are_ cases where those who are "pissed off" did
something to provoke the reaction. In that case it may be hard to have any
sympathy with them.

RB>> On the other hand, bombing is inefficient in eliminating terrorists,
RB>> as Clinton discovered.

MV> ... not only is it ineffective, it is counter productive, as pissing
MV> people off, is a _cause_ for terrorism.

Depends on those who are pissed off, and whether they really need an excuse for
practicing terrorism. Some people get excited about things that don't even
threaten them or people close to them - and some have no control over their
emotions at all, as we saw in the riots following publication of the "Mohammed
cartoons" - most of the people participating in those had never even seen the
thing they found so reprehensible.

The conclusion: a terrorist doesn't really need a reason for being pissed off,
all he wants is an excuse to present his deeds as "heroism" to his fellow
terrorists and the do-gooders of this world who automatically side with the
presumed "oppressed" even when they started the whole affair by murdering
people.

MV>>> but the Iraqi WMD ploy might have worked just the same. There are
MV>>> rumours he was already prepairing te Iraq invasion before 9/11.

RB>> Pure bullshit, propaganda after the fact. The military often works
RB>> out scenarios in preparation for possible developments, but that
RB>> doesn't mean all, or even part of them are actually put into action.

MV> The rumours are persistent...

There are also rumors that Lincoln was kidnapped and died in captivity in a
foreign country. People _do_ love mysteries.

MV> Bush wanted a war and I say had there been no 9/11, he would have
MV> found another excuse.

You underestimate the American people.

MV>>> What about Somalia 1993? Black Hawk Down? Didn't that end in
MV>>> disaster?

RB>> Somalia looked like an aid mission at the beginning,

MV> Nonsense. It was a "regime change mission".

Your memory is obviously failing. There _was_ no regime in Somalia at the time,
not any more than there is now.

RB>> and nobody expected another Vietnam.

MV> That is the problem with these war mongers...

...who wanted to help the Somalis in view of the catastrophic food shortages
and health problems. You really do go overboard. I don't know if the Dutch were
there, but the Germans certainly were - and not as "warmongers". Jeez, what a
negative attitude you have!

RB>> On the other hand, the enthusiasm for an armed conflict was
RB>> essentially lacking without a specific, immediate cause.

MV> And if not, it was invented. "He can launch an attack with WMDs in 45
MV> minutes" Tony Blair.

You should pay less attention to the headlines and more attention to the
substance of the news. Aside from which, you mis-quote.

RB>> After Vietnam, and after the Somalia disaster, the resistance against
RB>> military interventions was at a high point.

MV> It did not stop Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld.

Not after 9/11. So who _really_ set the ball rolling?

RB>> The point was that Americans had become fearful of military
RB>> adventures, but that 9/11 changed attitudes - and not only in the
RB>> USA.

MV> The irony is that it those military interventions were part cause for
MV> the terrorism that led to 9/11.

An excuse anyway. Turning your arguments around, if bin Laden and his bunch
hadn't had the excuse of Palastine, they would have found another. People who
are governed by their emotions rarely care for logic.

Cheers, Bob

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