Text 5222, 148 rader
Skriven 2010-02-24 13:21:41 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Robert Bashe (2:2448/44)
Ärende: The Dubai Connection
============================
Hello Robert,

On Monday February 22 2010 15:26, you wrote to me:

 MV>>>> Everyone can be LABELLED a terrorist.

 RB>>> Depends on what they do.

 MV>> No, it depends on whoever does the labelling.

 RB> No it depends on what they do.

If the MOSSAD decides to label you a terrorist, there is nothing you can do
about it.

 MV>>>> You are giving everyone an excuse to eliminate a political
 MV>>>> opponent. Just label him/her a terrorist et voila.

 RB>>> ;-) You don't believe that yourself.

On further reflecteion I suspect that is precisely what happened. Israel has a
history of eliminating Palestinian leaders.

 RB>>> When someone sends a hit squad to specifically eliminate someone?
 RB>>> Possible but certainly not the rule.

 MV>> 27 Afghan cilvilians killed when US air force attacks three
 MV>> minivans. They "thought" they were filled with Taliban. Sorry,
 MV>> small mistake...

 RB> You really should read what I write. OK, I'll emphasize it:
 RB> SPECIFICALLY ELIMINATE. Did that get through?

I wonder why you make that articificial distinction. Three minivans with
taliban warriors were specifically targetted.

Only it turned out they were not Taliban...

 MV>> Would you like to be one of those mistakes?

 RB> I repeat: specifically eliminate. Maybe you don't know what that
 RB> means: it means that you personally are targeted.

Or you are mistaken for someone else who is specifically targeted. Or the one
they want is indeed Robert Bashe becuase the *think* you have connections with
Hamas...

 RB> And the chance of that happening to me - or to you - are as close to
 RB> zero as you can get without actully being zero.

Tell that to the fotographer who died on the Rainbow warrior.

 MV>> Everyone has the right to a fair trial. That is at the basis of
 MV>> our soiciety. Drop that and you are back at the law of the jungle.
 MV>> No exceptions. One can not be a "lttle pregnant".

 RB> How you try to excuse mass murderers, Michiel. I do wonder.

You are making the classic mistake of confusing "defending the crime" with
"defending the system of fiar trial".

I do not condone murder. But I say the court room is the place to determine
guilt or innocence. Not the office of the head of the MOSAD. And if/when found
guilty it is for the court to set the sentence.

 MV>> First of all, I would like to know what he has actually done to be
 MV>> labelled a terrorist. The mere fact that he was a member of Hamas
 MV>> is not enough for me.

 RB> "Member"? You should read a bit to find out who this guy really was.

Your opinion on what he as is irrelevant. What he was is for the courts to
decide, not you or the MOSSAD.

 RB>>> And what your reaction would be if he actually were convicted of
 RB>>> multiple murder and terrorism: "Kangaroo court!"? And if he were
 RB>>> acquitted: "justice has been done!"?

 MV>> That depends on what would emerge in court.

 RB> He surely loved his family and his dog.

Your emotions are getting the better of you.

 MV>> Your point?

 RB> That people like you help mass murderers avoid justice.

How so? I want them in court.

Having them eliminated by a hit squad puts you on the same level as them. By
advocating susch methods you support dictatorship yourself.

 MV>> The end justifies the means?  No thanks.

 RB> Although you take exactly that standpoint when it comes to punishing
 RB> mass murderers. They have no problems doing what they do, and you then
 RB> fight furiously to avoid punishing them.

Wrong. What I fight against is using THEIR methods to punish them. No more, no
less.

 RB>>> However, that doesn't mean you were personally targeted. Neither
 RB>>> was Fernando Pereira.

 MV>> He is dead just the same.

 RB> Was that the subject here?

Hit squads eliminating people that are in someone's way.

 MV>> That it happens does not mean it is right. The end does NOT
 MV>> justify the means.

 RB> Sez you.

Yes, sais I. And I will keep saying that as long as i am standing.

 MV>> If you condone killing people form the other side by hit squads,
 MV>> don't be surprised if the other side does it to your side too.

 RB> Are you so certain that they don't?

Whsat comes to mind is that Russion spy who was poisoned with radio active
material and who died in a London hospital. I suppose you consider that all
right too then?

Related is the case of Salmon Rusdie. Declared an outlaw for rwriting the wrong
things.

 RB> P.S. I sometimes stand in wonder of your naivete, but maybe you
 RB> haven't had the experience I once had...

I had the experience of seeing the iron curtain fall and coming to the
conslusion that I have been fed propaganda with this 'we are the good guys and
they are the bad guys stuff".

I do npot believe it any more, That is not naivete, that is growing up.

It is you who are naive with your "we are the good guys end they are the bad
guys, so we have the right to do to them what we do not allow them to do to
us."


Cheers, Michiel

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