Text 9445, 100 rader
Skriven 2010-07-25 22:51:02 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Bob Ackley (1:300/3)
Ärende: Good, free email addresses in the States
================================================
Hello Bob,

On Sunday July 25 2010 06:56, you wrote to me:

 MvdV>> Sorry to say this Bob, I do not mean to be patronising but as a
 MvdV>> non-user of the internet, I can not consider you an expert on this.

 BA> You and Bob Bashe refer to 'forums,' I assumed that meant newsgroups.
 BA> Apparently you were referring to what we call 'chat rooms' over here.

It is neither. Usenet is comparable to FidoNet echomail. Users drop their
messages at their home server and from their they are distributed to all usenet
servers that have joined. Users download the messages from their home server to
read them.

A forum is comparable to a BBS. All the users tha participate in a certain
forum drop there messages at one and the same server. They also read them
there.

A chatroom is different in that the messages are not stored on the server(s)
for retrieval when it is convenient for the user, they use some system of
instantaneous message forwarding. It is comparable to a set of teleype machines
that are all linked into the same cicuit. When someone types something al the
others see it at once.

 BA> I am totally unfamiliar with such things,  I am also unfamiliar with
 BA> 'blogs.'

Blogs are individuals writing electronic diaries that can be read by the public
via the internet.  Some have an option to comment, some have not.

 BA> I do note, however, that while the IP addresses and other identifying
 BA> data are probably stripped from the packets at the receiving site,
 BA> such packets *can* be intercepted and that information extracted
 BA> there.

But only by the owner of the server. In the case of a forum that may be the
same as the forum moderator, but usually it is not. Even so, if the IP address
can be retreived, it is not very useful as there is no easy legal way to trace
an IP to the user.  In the states it may be, in Europe it is not. The only one
who can tie my IP to my name and street address is my ISP and they won't give
it to you without a court order.

 MvdV>> A proposal to shut down the internet is as realistic as a
 MvdV>> proposal to do away with motorised transport.

 BA> You've not heard about the "Internet Kill Switch" proposal that the US
 BA> congress wants to enact for Obama.  Not at all unfeasible as the US
 BA> government owns and controls the root servers for it.

I have heard about it and I think it is wishfull thinking by people who have no
idea how the InterNet works.

And no, the US government does not own and control the root servers. I would
give you a link to an instructive article where you can read all about how the
root servers work, but you don't do internet... <sigh>

 BA> Shutting down a private network - such as the telephone system or a
 BA> broadcast network - is also possible, and only a bit more difficult -
 BA> goons with guns in the control rooms works just fine,

The problem with the internet is that there is no central control room. Well,
actually that is not a problem, it is a design feature. It is very much
distributed just to avaid single points of failure.

 BA> Shutting down Fidonet - before the days of Internet traffic transport
 BA> - was also considered, but it's much more difficult to kill a
 BA> completely distributed system such as Fidonet was.

A good example. Fidonet may look like a hierarchical system and on the
organisational level it is, but in the technical level it is a peer to peer
network. Even in the days when it totally ran on POTS, it would have been next
to impossible to shut it down. You can shoot the IC and the ZC's and that would
disrupt the nodelist distribution for a while. But the network itself would
still function and soon enough someone else would take over the nodelist
distribution.

You mentioned the root servers. First, they are not owned by the US government,
They are not even all in the US. They are spread all over the world. The US
government might be able to shut down the root servers in the US, but not the
ones outside the us. Shutting down the US root servers would cause some serious
disruptions. But not for long, others would take over.  In fact there is
already some "plan B" for alternate root servers. I would give you a link
but...

 MvdV>> It is so deeply integrated in society that there is no way back.
 MvdV>> Anyone knowingly and willingly abstaining from the internet is an
 MvdV>> oddball of the same magnitude as someone knowingly and willingly
 MvdV>> abstaining from the use of motorised transport.

 BA> Actually I'm considering getting a horse.  While not feasible for long
 BA> trips, ( only rarely travel more than 15 miles.

You really ARE the odd ball out. ;-)


Cheers, Michiel

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