Text 9826, 201 rader
Skriven 2010-08-04 15:42:48 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
Ärende: Extortion?
==================
Hello Roy,

On Monday August 02 2010 17:09, you wrote to me:

 RW>>> Speculation and discussion keeps it alive with the public and
 RW>>> certain police agenies.

 MvdV>> Only until the next major airlines crash, flood, mining
 MvdV>> accident or political scandal. It is history already.

 RW> I'm aprised of the situation on a daily basis from such places as
 RW> Aruba and now Peru.

LOL! Yiu must get e lot of NMHT reprts. (Not Much Happening Today) Natalee
Holloway has not been mentined in the news here for at least two month. Last
time was a short item to the effect that the Aruban police was interested that
ellegedly the subject og the fight between JvdS and Flores. The laptop that
alledgly contained articles about Holloway. After that... nothing.

 RW>>> I suppose the words 'arrested and detained' are semantic, as one
 RW>>> can be held here for 72 hours without being charged.

 MvdV>> You once again make the error of assuming everything in the
 MvdV>> world works the same as in the US...

Where you are wrong is the 72 hours. That is not how it works under Dutch law.
Suspects can be held longer than that, without formally  being charged, but the
"onderzoeksrechter", a judge must give his fiat. He will ask for the evidnce so
far. For each prolongation the demand for evidence will be more stringent.

 RW> Then they WERE arrested in Aruba...at least that's what the Aruban
 RW> media has stated, over and over again.

All in all JvdS was detained for 90 days and then the judge ruled, that since
no further evidence was emerging, enough was enough and he was released.

Later, the DA tried to have detained once more, claiming that new avidence had
emerged, but the jude ruled that it was basically the smae old evidence
presented in a diferent way and denied the request for another detainment.

 RW>>> After one is released doesn't make them any less suspicious
 RW>>> characters in the case by any means.

 MvdV>> In most parts of the world it does.

 RW> Most parts of the world don't think like a stubborn Dutchman.

In most parts of the world people are considered innocent until convicted in a
court of law.

Also do not forget that civilised countries havethe separation of powers. A
policeman or the DA may say that JvdS is still a suspect, but when a judge has
ruled that he can not be detained again, it is rather meaningless.

You see here we do not only grant a suspect a fair trial, we also require that
the process be completed in a fair time frame. It can not last forever. At some
point the subject must either be tried in court or he must not be botheed
again. Anything else would be a violation of the principle of "completed in a
fair time frame"

And since the court has rules that he can not be detained again on the evidence
as present, the pratcical consequence is that presently he is not a supect. No
matter what others asy.

 MvdV>> a situation that is unlikely to change as five years have passed.

 RW> Accept that the latest development has brought it back into the
 RW> limelight, even in Aruba.

For 15 milliseconds

 MvdV>> As I wrote before, it is very unlikely the body will turn up.
 MvdV>> If it is anywhere on the island, it would have been found by
 MvdV>> now. If it is in the sea... forget it.

 RW> A guy named Peterson in California placed his murdered pregnant wife
 RW> in the sea. She and the fetus seperately but eventually, washed up on
 RW> shore.

 RW> But, after 5 years with nothing like that, I assume that the murderer
 RW> or his helper(s) did a good job of anchoring her to the bottom.

Ever heard of fish and what they eat?

 MvdV>> And closed again after 15 milliseconds.

 RW> The Arubans are still on the case...

So why is Jvds in a Peruvian jail and not an Aruban one?

 MvdV>>>> *MY* tax money I might add. More than enough of it was spend
 MvdV>>>> on a runawy American spitfire for my taste.

 RW>>> She was not a runaway.

 MvdV>> The hell she was. Kicked out of hotels lobbies for being drunk
 MvdV>> at 11 am. She sure was no angel.

 RW> LOL! Typically, you're repeating hearsay.

From WikiPedia:

Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig, who would head the investigation from
mid-2005 until 2006, described the behavior of the Mountain Brook students,
stating there was "wild partying, a lot of drinking, lots of room switching
every night. We know the Holiday Inn told them they weren't welcome next year.
Natalee, we know, she drank all day every day. We have statements she started
every morning with cocktails-so much drinking that Natalee didn't show up for
breakfast two mornings".[30] Two of Holloway's classmates, Liz Cain and Claire
Fierman, "agreed that the drinking was kind of excessive".[

"Nice girls" do not get told by hotel managers they are not welcome next year.
Also I may note that those chaperones have not done a very good job...

 RW> According to the Dutch definition; Voluntary and Involuntary
 RW> Manslaughter is not homicide, but an accidental death caused by
 RW> negligence.

Wrong.

Accidental death by negligence is not manslaughter. It is "dood door schuld".
Example: A truck driver forgets the parking brake. Truck rolls away and kills
someone. That is not murder (moord), it is not manslaughter (doodslag), it is
"dood door schuld"

 RW> With the degree to which Joran beat the Peruvian girl, there can be no
 RW> manslaughter charge, but most definately a murder charge.

That is the US way of thinking. Under Dutch law, the difference between
manslaughter and murder is the premeditation. Murder requires premeditation. if
- as he claimed - he killed hert in a fit of rage after finding her snooping in
his laptop, there is no premeditation, and so it is manslaughter, not murder.
The dgeree of multilation is irrelevant, the ONLY criterium is the (lack of)
premeditation.

 RW>>> Being as they are the authorities in Peru, they can do as they
 RW>>> please. Joran has no rights as a Peruvian citizen, even if being
 RW>>> a citizen could help him.

 MvdV>> Again USaian thinking. In most countries the distinction
 MvdV>> between a citizen or a foreigner does come into the equation
 MvdV>> when accused of a criminal offence.

 RW> Of course it does. Being a foreigner who has murdered a native, has
 RW> already entered the equation. You can tell that by the way they speak
 RW> of him in their news articles about him.

There is a difference bewteen what the tabloids write and on hwo the courts
will rule.

 RW>>> LOL! The only way you can get a banana to grow in the Netherlands is
 RW>>> if one were to fall off a cargo ship and you took it inside.

 MvdV>> You have no idea what you are talking about.

 RW> Bananas have a hard time growing in southern California. I doubt
 RW> they'd do any better in Holland. The difference is at least 20 degrees
 RW> of latitude, California being the warmer (banana growing) climate for
 RW> it.

Again, you have no idea what we can grow here. We CAN grow bananas here. The
only reason we don't is that it is cheaper to import them from Africa.

 MvdV>>>> The days of the US imperium have come to an end.

 RW>>> LOL! You've been reading too much Al Jazeera bullshit.

 MvdV>> That is what you think.

 RW> That is how your writing reads to me. I'm sure I'm not alone in that
 RW> one.

The you and the others are dead wrong. I do not watch Al Jazeera. (Maybe I
shoulkd)...

 RW>>> Don't bet your life on it.

 MvdV>> I never bet.

 RW> You lie! You already made a bet, right here in this echo.

No, I didn't. You offered me a bet. I did not accept it. (I did request some
clarification about the terms though).

 MvdV>> And so will all the people involved in what you call a case.
 MvdV>> Natalee Holloway will have been forgotten and nobody will be
 MvdV>> interested in it any more.

 RW> With the computer technology we have today, it wouldn't be any problem
 RW> for the justice department to set an alarm for the anniversary of his
 RW> sentencing date on a yearly (or less) basis.

Sure, that is possible. So an alarm goes of somewhere. And then the guy looking
at the screen will wonder "who the f**k is Natalee Holloway?" And he will go on
with the more important task of buttering up his voters for the next election.


Cheers, Michiel

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