Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33904
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24128
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4408
FN_SYSOP   41679
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13599
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16070
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22093
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3222
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13273
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32959
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2061
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
Möte FIDONEWS_OLD3, 30874 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 9985, 101 rader
Skriven 2010-08-17 01:59:37 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 9981 av Scott Little (3:712/848)
Ärende: Just Curious
====================
Hello Scott,

On Monday August 16 2010 09:51, you wrote to me:

 MV>> The ungrounded socket will accept grounded and ungrounded plugs.
 MV>> A situation that is no longer considered safe. One of the
 MV>> reasons, the ungrounded sockets are phased out. In Germany they
 MV>> were never in use after the mid fifties.

 SL> Who was the genius that put the ground pins on the outside?!

I do not know it probably was a German.

It might have been to do with making the grounded sockets not accept an
ungrounded plug, but not vice versa. A situation diametrically opposed to most
countries where an grounded socket will accept an ungrounded plug but not (if
ungrounded sockets exist) vice versa.

The reasoning stems from the first half of the previous century when houses had
wooden floors and 90% of the electrical installation in an average house were
light fixtures. And perhaps a washing machine in the kitchen. The reasoning was
as follows:

1) It must take two faults to create a dangerous situation.

2) There are wet and dry spaces.

3) Most spaces such as living rooms and bedrooms, qualify as dry spaces. In dry
spaces there is nothing a user can touch that will bring him into contact with
ground. So if an applience has a metal encasing and the insulation fails and
the casing comes into contact with a live wire, nothing much happens, as there
is no grounded metal around that the user can touch. Only if a second applience
also has an insulation faulðt and that fault connects the casing to the null,
will a shock hazard exist. So in dry rooms, there is no need for grounding, and
hence no need for grounded sockets. Appliences, destined for use in dry spaces,
have an ungrounded plug, even if they have a metal encasing. They are also
called class zero appliences.

4) In wet rooms, such as kitchens were there is grounded metal (water taps)
that can be touched or where a wet concrete floor can bring the user into
contact with ground, all equipment must be grounded. All equipment (also
called, class one equipment) must have a grounded plug and all sockets must be
grounded. So that in case the insulation fails, and a live wire comes into
contact with the metal encasing, the fuse blows. Again it takes two faults to
create a situation with shock hazard, The insulatiom must fail AND (the ground
connection must be broken OR the fuse must fail)

5) Class zero equipment must never be used in a wett (class one) area as that
would create a situation where  a single fault (insulation failure) leads to a
shock hazard situation. To prevent class 0 equipment being used in a class one
environmemt, the class zero (ungrounded) plug does not fit into a class one
(grounded) socket.

6) The reverse however is no problem. When a class one piece of equipment is
moved into a dry area (class 0), plugging it in an ungrounded socket should be
no problem, as a class one piece of equipment with an unconnected ground is
electrically equivalent to a class zero (ungrounded) piece of equipment. It
still takes two faults to create a shock hazard situation. So a grounded plug
fits into an ungrounded socket.

7) It was allowed to place grounded sockets in dry areas. However the two types
may not be mixed. If one socket is grounded, all the sockets in the same room
must be grounded. Otherwise the "two faults" rule would be broken.



This is all history, The philosophy folded with the coming of central heating.
From then on there was grounded metal in every room. But the "two fault"
requirement was saved by the invention of the earth leakage switch. Equipment
behind an earth leakage switch could still be used in a central heated dry room
without shock hazard. It would take both the insulation and the earth leakage
switch to fail to create a lethal situation.

In the meantime the "two fault" rule has been replaced by the "three fault
rule" for all new domestic installations and old installation that undergo
major changes. Evertything must be behind an earth leakage switch and all
sockets must be grounded. Ungrounded equipment must be class II, or so called
double insulated.  So for a shock hazard situation to occur now, three thing
must fail.

     The earth leakage switch must fail AND
     (
        ( The insulation must fail AND
             ( the grounding must fail OR the fuse must fail
             )
        )
        OR
        ( Both layers of the double insulation must fail
        )
     )


That is the philosophy now but the ungrounded, class zero, sockets are still
around and there is also some class zero equipment around. It may take another
30 years to fully disappear.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
 * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)