Text 11358, 158 rader
Skriven 2013-11-30 11:49:12 av Roy Witt (1:387/22)
  Kommentar till text 11354 av Gerrit Kuehn (2:240/12)
Ärende: Louisiana Thanksgiving
==============================
 Brer Gerrit Kuehn wrote to Brer Roy Witt about Louisiana Thanksgiving:

 GK> Hello Roy!

 GK> 29 Nov 13 18:36, Roy Witt wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:


 RW>> Wrong. Everybody, regardless of religious faith, celebrates this
 RW>> holiday
 RW>> in the USA.

 GK> I read that some people from native (Indian) ancestry are not
 GK> regarding this as a day to celebrate.

They're also not regarded as members of the general populace. They have
their own Indian Nation, territory, laws and LEOs...Only the FBI has
jurisdiction on Indian reservations (Indian Nation).

 BF>>>    Not at all. As I mentioned in a comment to Lee for instance, we
 BF>>> here up north do not celebrate most of the Christian holidays for
 BF>>> the Christian reason, they are surviving holidays from before
 BF>>> Christian time.

 RW>> That's odd. There is a Svedeish Advent day, Svedish All Saints day,
 RW>> Whit
 RW>> Sunday, Lucia Day, Ascension Day, Svedish Christmas, Svedish Easter,
 RW>> Svedish Lent and St Martin's Day...

 GK> Yes, but you probably know that most of these Christian holidays have
 GK> been put in place instead of former Roman, Greek, Germanic whatever
 GK> holidays. I think that is what he is talking about.

Accept for the fact that Roman and Catholic are from the same city in the
same state. Regardless, they're Christian holidays.

 GK>>>> It has never been an official festive day by the chruch, anyway.
 GK>>>> Just a tradition.

 BF>>>    Well, in Sweden it *was* an official church Sunday (albeit not a
 BF>>> festive) up until 1983.

 RW>> He apparently doesn't know the difference between a tradiitonal
 RW>> holiday
 RW>> and a religious holiday.

 GK> Well, I guess in the case of our Harvest Festival or some other here
 GK> this is difficult to tell apart.

This little town where I live was settled by Germans from Braunfels
Germany and has had a tradition of leaning German since that time, c1847.
It was instrumental in mining metals required to keep the Confederacy in
enough lead bullets to fight the Yankees. Some joined the Confederate army
and some joined the Union, depending on their political mindset.

There are a few celebrations by German name only, that are not religious
celebrations. Wursfest is celebrated in late October-November and all it
is about is eating stuffed sausage and drinking a lot of beer. Some 'umpa'
bands playing German music and people dressed up in their lederhose and/or
dirndl skirts.

 RW>> Thanks Giving in the US isn't about
 RW>> religion,
 RW>> but a celebration of Pilgrim survival. TG didn't become a national
 RW>> holiday
 RW>> until many centuries after the fact.

 GK> I know. But even if this is a vital part of it, why is it called
 GK> "Thanksgiving", after all, and not "Pilgrims' Day" (or something else
 GK> like that)?

The Pilrims gave thanks to their god and the tradition of doing that has
trickled down to those who are religious enough to do the same. The name
of the holiday is from that tradition more than from religion.

 GK> From all I have read so far I think that it still includes large
 GK> parts of a traditional harvest festival (which is also often closely
 GK> liked to some religion, but not exclusively) like it is celebrated in
 GK> European countries.

The original Thanksgiving was a celebration in public where everyone in
the community attended. Today that isn't so, as most families celebrate it
at one relatives home or another. There are still places that serve the
public, but those people are the do-gooders of a church and they're
feeding the poor, homeless or anyone who is passing through town and
could use a free meal...

 BF>>>    Of course it does. But it's usually the bulk of the region's
 BF>>> harvest that's in question.

 RW>> What region?

 GK> Well, I think for the US New York is already pretty much up North,
 GK> and it has about the same latitude as Rome, which is pretty far South
 GK> here in Europe.

Does Rome get ice and snow this time of year? New York probably has
some of the worst winter weather. As does all of the states along the
Canadian border and maybe south a state or two. Northern Texas gets the
same weather, sometimes.

 GK>  You have set up this Gulf Stream thing for us that lets us forget
 GK> about this sometimes. ;-)

I didn't set it up, but yes, if it wasn't for the gulf stream, Europe
would be in a winter setting all of the time.

 GK> But if you look how the sunset is changing over the year and how long
 GK> you have twilight in the mornings and evenings, you recognize the
 GK> difference.

That's a natural phase of our orbit around the sun. The earth's poles are
tilted slightly and as we go around the sun, the sunset changes in time of
setting and its position in the sky.

 GK>  Most of my colleagues from the US (and also from other countries
 GK> like Australia or India) are rather unused to this.

Really? I lived on the Pacific rim for so many years that watching a
sunset was something like turning the voltage down on a lamp bulb. Since
the Pacific Ocean is so huge, the sunlight reflects off of the water's
surface and continues to shine late into the evening. And of course, the
closer you get to the equator, the longer the days are. This is why Texas
has such warm weather when the rest of the continent further north is
freezing their arses off.

 RW>> Maybe in Europe, but in the USA there is a harvesting season that
 RW>> lasts
 RW>> into mid to late December, depending on the "region" where those
 RW>> things
 RW>> are grown...

 GK> And it depends on what you grow. As mentioned, we have several things
 GK> here that are only harvested after they got the first frost. Kale for
 GK> example...

Yes sir. There are things that won't grow in Texas, but will grow in
northern areas. There's a beautiful Birch tree that fares very well in the
Rocky mountains, but won't grow anywhere else.

 BF>>>  Much of it is even further north.

 RW>> Alaska...where else is as far north as Sveden?

 GK> I think both Alaska and Sveden are rather extreme examples. But just
 GK> look at NY vs. Rome and you get the idea.

I have.


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