Text 13126, 111 rader
Skriven 2014-03-25 15:08:00 av Bill McGarrity (5470.2fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 13123 av alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
Ärende: Re: War
===============
-=> alexander koryagin wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

Hiya Alexander..

 ak>     Hi, Bill McGarrity! I read your message from 23.03.2014 11:43 about
 ak> Re: War.

  ak>> It is difficult to invent what to do with the Crimean Russian
  ak>> population now. The West thinks that in the Crimea they can only
  ak>> see poor, crying Ukrainians faces. But actually, there are nothing
  ak>> there but Russian mugs, happy and smiling. :=)
  BM>
  BM>
  BM> My question Alexander is rather simple... but compelling none the
  BM> less. If the Crimean Russian population was so unhappy with the
  BM> existing government that was?? the Ukraine, why didn't they just
  BM> simply move back to Russia?

 ak>     There is no need for many words: the Crimea is Motherland for them,
 ak> their parents, grandparents. It is very difficult to leave it. Why
 ak> should they leave their Motherland?

A simple fact remains then, if they considered Crimea the Motherland and Crimea
was part of the Ukraine, then they should consider themselves Ukrainian first. 

  BM> You analogy could be as simple as this. Imagine a large population
  BM> of Polish nationals living in Russia who were unhappy with the way
  BM> things were going in Moscow. According to you, Poland has every
  BM> right to annex that part of Moscow, by force if necessary. If
  BM> indeed the population of Crimea was nationalized Russian citizens
  BM> then there were there as guests of the Ukraine government, nothing
  BM> more, nothing less.

 ak>     The Russian speaking Crimean people were not guests on their
 ak> Motherland.
 ak>     I've already told how the Crimea got into the Ukraine. It was
 ak> always a province of the Russian Federation. Nikita Khrushchev (a
 ak> Ukrainian man, who became the USSR president) separated it from Russian
 ak> Federation and included it into the Ukraine in 1954. Of course, nobody
 ak> asked Russian people living in the Crimea. It is a old Soviet crime,
 ak> but it doesn't mean that the Russian inhabitants of the Crimea forgot
 ak> about it.

And it took 60 years?  That's the better part of 3 generations who've lived
under Ukraine law. Granted, their heritage is still of Russian descent but
being they've been technically been born within the Ukraine proper, doesn't
that make them Ukrainian?  Just as you stated, Khrushchev was a Ukrainian so
therefore anyone born in the territory must also be.  Can't have it both ways. 

  BM> If they considered themselves Ukrainian citizens, then what they
  BM> did could be considered treason against the constitution. I know
  BM> what you're going to say now is the same happened in Kiev, but the
  BM> simple fact is there was no outside interference in dealing with
  BM> the uprising as there was in Crimea.

 ak> The Ukraine army did not fight in the Crimea. So, there was no need to
 ak> use Russian troops and tanks. Nobody saw the Crimean towns occupied by
 ak> Russian troops, that pushed people to vote in the referendum.

As I stated, the troops there may not have worn Russian insignia but they were
certainly sent there by Putin. Occum's razor... 

  BM>   If Crimea wanted to be independent of the
  BM> Ukraine, then they should have done it the old fashioned way and
  BM> not depend on armed russian militia.

 ak> "Armed Russian militia" consisted of the Russian people living in the
 ak> Crimea.

Again, symantics.... you totally understand my theory.  

 BM> Yes, I know they showed no
  BM> affiliation with Russian military but lets not be blind to the fact
  BM> they were most likely armed by the Russian High Command, whoever
  BM> that is, and led by trained military men. Not your typical
  BM> population for an area known as the "Riviera of the Russian elite".

 ak> I don't know what was "most likely", but the Crimea militia captured a
 ak> lot of weapon by itself. I have already told you the reason -- the
 ak> Ukrainian army, first of all, was _PARALYZED_ by Yanukovivh: he
 ak> strictly prohibited it to shot people and participate in the events.
 ak> That's why they refused to shot people who surrounded and captured
 ak> their military bases and equipment. And, of course, they didn't want to
 ak> shed blood by themselves, too. In the same manner many weapon got in
 ak> the hands of the Maidan militia in the western Ukraine.

Your statements may have been true during the initial uprising in Kiev, but he
was long gone by the time of the -invasion- of Crimea.  Could the reasoning be
the "militia" you speak of were trained on Russian soil for just this purpose
and when thinking in hindsight, those on the Ukraine bases kept level heads
rather than starting an all out war?  Putin took a gamble along with the rest
of the politico knowing with the unrest in Ukraine proper it would be the
perfect coverup for reacclimation.  It succeeded, but I'm sure he's walking on
eggshells when it comes to Eastern Ukraine if he thinks he'll be able to
duplicate his success there.    

Be well Alex...


Bill

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