Text 16936, 123 rader
Skriven 2014-07-23 15:15:36 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 16883 av Kees van Eeten (2:280/5003.4)
Ärende: Ukraine
===============
Hello Kees,

Kees van Eeten -> TIM RICHARDSON explained :
 KvE> Hello TIM!

 KvE> 21 Jul 14 14:59, you wrote to me:

 KV>>> Yes but he can not veere of his flightplan, based on personal
 KvE> opinions.

 TR>> Maybe. But when he's studying his flight plan prior to takeoff, and
 KvE> he
 TR>> sees the flight plan will take him over territory where hostilities
 TR>> that include aircraft being shot at with missiles, he has the option
 TR>> of refusing to fly the plane.

 KvE>   If you are the first to be shot at with a missile, you cannot use that
 KvE>   as a reason to refuse a flight plan before the fact.

 KvE>   At the time between 200-300 flights took that route every day.

US pilots were told not to fly over the area earlier this year.
I suspect other pilots from around the world were also told much
the same thing.

 TR>>> Secondly...this incident calls to mind the incident where a civilian
 TR>>> aircraft deliberately took off and aimed its takeoff path directly
 TR>>> at an American war ship, such that the captain of that war ship shot
 TR>>> it down thinking it might be an enemy missile. The USS Vincennse saw
 TR>>> a large object approaching it at a high velocity in the Persian
 KvE> Gulf.


 TR>>> The captain treated the object as a hostile missile and his crew
 KvE> shot
 TR>>> it down. It was an Iranian aircraft, full of Iranian passengers, and
 TR>>> nobody misses them. Well....maybe other Iranians. Anyway, hopefully,
 TR>>> the captain was promoted to admiral later in his career for his act
 TR>>> of human decency (killing Iranians).


 KV>>> As I read it the the system presented the aircraft as a hostile
 KvE> missile.


 TR>> The Iranians deliberately sent that aircraft at an American war ship,
 KvE> as
 TR>> an attempt to ramp up hostile feelings toward America.

 KvE>   Of course that is what every country does with civilian aircraft loaded
 KvE> with
 KvE>   civilian passengers. Get real.

 KV>>> There was a flaw in the system, and the crew reacted as it should
 KvE> have.
 KV>>> The failure of the process was admitted.


 TR>> There was no disciplinary action taken against the captain or his
 KvE> crew.


 TR>> The only `failure' in the system was the cold-blooded attitude of
 KvE> Iran
 TR>> and most everybody in that part of the world toward human life.


 TR>> The only `flaw' in the system was an unknown, un-announced aircraft
 TR>> deliberately took off heading straight at an American war ship.


 TR>> By the way....as I recall, there was a procedure in place for
 KvE> civilian
 TR>> aircraft taking off and landing, to notify war ships in their
 KvE> vicinity
 TR>> of their takeoff path and landing path. Neither the aircraft of which
 TR>> we speak, nor the tower under whose control it was at the time, did
 KvE> so.


 TR>> It doesn't matter if it was 35 years ago or just yesterday! That
 KvE> pilot
 TR>> could see what he was about to fire on was a civilian airliner. He
 KvE> fired
 TR>> on it anyway!

 KvE>   I seen no difference with the action against the Iranian Airliner,
apart
 KvE> from
 KvE>   the party taking the action.

1983 - Russian military shoots down Korean passenger airliner, killing
all on board.

1988 - American military shoots down Iranian passenger airliner, killing
all on board.

2014 - Separatists blamed for shooting down Malaysian passenger
airliner, killing all on board.

While the Russian military and the American military are known to have
been responsible for having shot down passenger airliners, it is not
known who was responsible for having shot down the passenger airliner
that flew over Ukraine.

 TR>> Later...when the tragedy began to unfold in the international press
 TR>> and
 TR>> media, the Russians `claimed' it was a `spy' plane loaded with
 KvE> electronic
 TR>> spying equipment!

 KvE>   You claimed a similar function for the Iranian Cilvil aircraft.

Russian military pilots thought they were downing a spy plane.
American Navy sailors thought they were shooting down a fighter
aircraft.  Separatists/mercenaries in Ukraine were most likely
trying to shoot down anything and everything in the sky without
thought or clue as to what the heck they were shooting at.

--Lee

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