Text 17226, 95 rader
Skriven 2014-07-29 12:43:31 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 17192 av alexander koryagin (2:5020/2140.2)
Ärende: Ukraine
===============
Hello Alexander,

 RC>>>> Do you really expect me to believe that Russia is
 RC>>>> without culpability here?
 ak>>> Well, maybe Russia is not out of the game completely.
 ak>>> Because it is impossible to imagine that Russia will look
 ak>>> at the killing of the Russian people calmly, without a
 ak>>> murmur.
 RC>> You are expecting me to believe that little Ole Ukraine is
 RC>> bullying lil Ole Russia? Is your name Rasputin?
 RC>> Why wasnt this resolved 20 years ago??

 ak> The main problem is that the USSR's borders were always just formal
 ak> lines. They didn't mean more than internal region's borders. In other
 ak> words the borders coincided very poorly with nationality spreading. That
 ak> is why the disintegration of the USSR is seen as a catastrophe by many
 ak> people. For instance, tens of millions of Russian people found
 ak> themselves separated from their relatives etc.

Oh, this is rich.

How many "republics" did the former USSR have?  Fifteen?

I seem to recall, decades ago the very same USSR insisted on
having 15 delegates to the United Nations.  One delegate for
each "republic".  With each delegate getting one vote, thus
giving the former USSR 15 votes at the UN.

By that same logic, the USA should have been able to get 50
delegates, one for each of the fifty states/republics in the
USA.

Of course, things did not quite work out the way the former
USSR wanted or expected.  ;)

 ak> Anyway, I believe that in 21 century humans of the title nation has no
 ak> right to kill thousands of people who want to separate and live as they
 ak> want. Separatism is not the reason for mass murder. I respect
 ak> Czechoslovakia for their civilized divorce.

Man must find a way to do away with war.  Before war puts an
end to man.

 ak> As a way out I would propose to the Ukraine to give a great autonomy to
 ak> the east (almost separation) with condition that during some time (10
 ak> years for instance) they will not join Russia. During that time Ukraine
 ak> can do some steps to show that it is the better choice. If it is not,
 ak> after this term the rebel regions must have right to choose its destiny.

Russia can play a positive role, by encouraging both sides to sit down
and discuss their differences.  Not to force either side to do things
one way or another, but to encourage both sides to settle their dispute
in peaceable ways.

Ultimately it must be their choice, not Russia or the USA or any other
country's choice.  It is a problem for Ukraine to solve.  With itself.

 ak> It will be a compromise - the rebels will get independence, but, at the
 ak> same time, they will not a part of Russia. All the parties preserve
 ak> their faces.

Russia and the US should both stay out of it.  Encourage a peaceful
solution to be found by the parties involved, but also a hands off
approach, thus allowing them to continue killing themselves off until
they get tired of it and decide to sue for peace.

 RC>> This is all about Ukraine wanting to have aligned itself with
 RC>> the EU and not Russia and you all didnt like it.

 ak> AFAIK, it is a lie that Russia unscrewed Ukrainian hands and forced it
 ak> to refuse from the association with the EU. The former the USSR
 ak> republics have joined in a trade cooperation and shared some benefits
 ak> from each other. It was told Ukraine that it will lose these benefits if
 ak> it joins the EU. Nothing more was said. More had been invented by
 ak> journalists.

It is not about Ukraine joining the EU.  It is about whether the EU
will remain a united EU or if each country decides to go its separate
ways.  Economiccally, a Europe that is dis-united is more of benefit
to Russia than would be a stronger more unified Europe.

 ak> Probably, Ukraine wanted to have benefits from both the Russia lead
 ak> Custom Union and the EU. But it was not a realistic wish. It was too
 ak> smart. Every group has its own rules of game.

What do the (Ukrainian) people want?

Does Ukraine want to be more like Poland?  Or like Russia?
Which country is making more progress economically - Poland
or Russia?  And there you will find your answer.

--Lee

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