Text 20067, 179 rader
Skriven 2014-12-15 15:20:52 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
  Kommentar till text 20036 av Bill McGarrity (12222.2fidonews)
Ärende: Dogs
============
On 15/12/2014 8:36 AM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> My house hold members have never felt sufficiently threatened to
 DD>> require protection. Remember  there are no pit bulls roaming here or
 DD>> assault weapons being waved around.

 BM> No one is talking about protecting your family against pits or assault
 BM> weapons per se being you feel the government has sufficiently protected
you from
 BM> both.

Nothing to do with the government - the society I live isn't that scary. I do
not feel the need for a pit bull or assault weapon to protect me.

 BM> You do need to protect your daughters from the possibility of rape.
 BM> Australia like Sweden ranks worse that the US in that department.  unless
you
 BM> don't have daughters or grandaughters..

Rape doesn't just happen every day in the street here. If I had a pit bull or
assault weapon that is not going to help my daughters or granddaughters avoid
rape. They would want me, my dog and assault rifle being with them 24/7. Rapes
are more likely to occur in bars and clubs - in in the vicinity there of. Those
places have a low tolerance of big dogs and firearms.

 DD>> While there are parts of the central city I wouldn't wander by myself
 DD>> at night I do not feel I have any day to day personal safety concerns.

 BM> You should... but again, if you feel secure in your complacency who I
 BM> am to question it.

I do not live in a violent culture as you seem to - I have very little to feel
insecure about.

If you find it so scary living there maybe you should consider emigrating to
some place more peaceful.

 DD>> I have never owned a dog - never felt 'the need.

 BM> Then you're basing your prejudice of pits on someone elses prejudice. OK.

I am basing my opinion of the news as reported and the by-laws as passed. I
personally do not care if the breed, or any other breed, is banned.

 BM>> You may want to look up a Schutzhund obedience competition and see
exactly how a well trained
 BM>> dog follows it's owner's commands.

 DD>> Then again I may not want to.

 BM> thought knowledge was a good thing?

Only if one can make some use of it. If not then it is just brain clutter.

 DD>> History speaks for itself - old ladies and little kids have been
 DD>> seriously damaged by pit bulls in Australia in recent years.

 BM> Again, being your lack of experience in just looking at the outcome rather
than
 BM> the reasoning behind it that outcome is probably status quo for you.

I don't plan to look behind the reasoning - I have no plans to get a dog - of
any breed.

 BM> Trust me, there are some mean pits but that mean streak wasn't bred, it
was taught.

And unfortunately for the breed those are the ones that have escaped from the
back yard and condemned the whole breed to death here.

 DD>> That the owners were prosecuted after the fact has not helped those
 DD>> hurt.

 BM> As they should have been.  The government should also look into proper
 BM> procedures in identifying those who do breed and train for the purpose of
 BM> killing or maiming.

Much easier and cheaper to just ban the breed and prosecute the shit out of
anyone caught in possession. They use the same logic for assault weapons and
hard drugs.

Interesting that the majority of Australians do not object to these bannings.
The dog/drug/firearm people haven't been able to put up a convincing argument
to reverse the bans.

 BM> Remember, a parked car doesn't kill.  Put a human in
 BM> charge of it that doesn't know what their doing then the possibility of a
 BM> tragic outcome increases expotentially.

A car has no mind of it's own - it does not react without human input. A dog
will.
[...]
 DD>>> Blaming the owner after the fact does not help bring the old lady back
 DD>>> from the grave or restore the face of the little kid.

 BM> Identifying the owner before does.

Cheaper to ban the breed. There is no practical reason that a person should own
a pit bull so why bother?
[...]
 DD>> It matters to them and their loved ones and sways the public's
 DD>> impression of this breed.

 BM> Sways the public due to faulty data.

It worked - pit bulls are banned.

 BM>>  Proper training of the dog may insure the old lady and the child gets
 DD>> licked to death from all the loving they'll get.

 DD>> Too late, they are already dead or maimed.

 BM> So I guess Australia needs to remove all the cars off the streets and
highways
 BM> because of all the dead and maimed people in the past. Sounds like a good
time
 BM> for a walk-about.

Nope - we know that the killer cars were all under the control of some person
whereas the killer pit bulls seemed to be using their own initiative.

People have a practical reason to own a car. So far no-one has presented a
practical reason for owning a pit bull

 BM>> If "owners" can't take the time to train their dogs properly, whether>
large or
 BM>> small breed, then they shouldn't have the animal.

 DD>> Indeed but until the attack the dog that the owner could not train is
 DD>> an unknown factor. Prevention is better than cure.

 BM> Sure it is, prevention by training...

Too expensive - cheaper to ban  the breed. Personally I think all non-working
dogs should be banned but it is not my choice so I can only refrain from owning
one myself.

 DD>> The majority of Australians are quite happy with this.

 BM> The majority of Australians who are uneducated when it comes to the
 BM> breeding of dogs are happy with it.

They simply don't care for pit bulls so there is insufficient drive to have the
ban reversed.

 BM> Those that breed responsibily see it as a infringement on their freedoms.

Australians do not have the freedom to own a pit bull. No such freedom = no
such infringement.

 BM>>  Same goes with firearms.  If someone is unwilling or incapable of proper
ownership with regard to
 BM>> training and usage, then they should own one.

 DD>> Those in power have decided that no-one can get the necessary training
 DD>> to use assault weapons within our society and so they cannot own one.

 BM> Then you are indeed naive to the facts of human nature.

The facts here speak for themselves. They don't let us have heroin or nuclear
devices either.

We are not allowed to rape old ladies or fuck little boys - some choose to do
those things and when caught they pay the price. As it is with illegal
dogs/drugs/firearms.

 DD>> Most Australians are quite happy that.

 BM> Along with their Fosters...

Fosters is made for the export market only. No-one here is happy with Fosters.

-- 

Regards
David

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