Text 25577, 148 rader
Skriven 2015-06-15 02:27:05 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
Ärende: Freedom
===============
Hello Everybody,

Michiel Van Der Vlist, enraptured in a rare moment
of pure madness, had some very interesting things to
say to Roger Nelson in the FN_SYSOP echo.  To be fair,
both gentlemen presented differing perspectives on a
topic that many hold dear.  As such, I present to you,
on this fine day, a conversation found and not lost,
My own comments are placed within [].

            -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

RN>Freedom is for those who will fight for it.

When that fight goes at the expense of the freedom
of others, they will fight back.

[Not all are able to fight back.  Except perhaps
in ways others might not quite understand.]

RN>Those who don't, both criticize those who do
RN>and won't fight for it themselves.  When our
RN>freedom is attacked, we fight back.

So will others. That is what happened with 9/11.
Someone fought back.

[Again, failure to understand/comprehend the proper
meaning of freedom should be kept in mind.  There
is always a cost for freedom, as freedom is never
free.  However, violence is not freedom, and rarely
leads to freedom.  Violence begets violence.  More
violence begets more violence.  An endless vicious
cycle that can never be broken.  Better to use other
means to find freedom, and to keep it when found.]

RN>The rest of the world stands on the sideline
RN>wringing their hands. Just as you are upset with
RN>us, we are just as upset with you, so what is
RN>this really about?

You (plural) won't learn from history. You won't
learn from the mistakes of others. You won't even
learn from your own mstakes.

[A convict on life row knows when he/she is going
to die.  Is it better to know, or to not know?
Why should a convict on life row bother to even
try to learn from his/her own mistakes, much less
from the mistakes of others?  Society has already
condemned the unforgiveable.  As such, why fix
one mistake with another?]

RN>The real question is what kind of men are you over there?

I am a man who does not believe that every problem
can be solved in a military way. I am a man who does
not believe in right of might. Right of might only
works for the strongest. And even then it doesn't
always. What did you (plural) achieve in Korea? What
did you achieve in Vietnam? What did you achieve in
Mogadishu? Whay did uou learn from all that? Look
at the mess that you made in the Middle East.

[Our former enemies are now our best friends.  That
is what we do.  Sometimes having to do it over again,
as in the case of Germany.  But eventually we make
everybody our very best friend.]

Plus that no one remains the strongest until eternity.
Dynasties come and go. Look at what happened to the Roman
Empire. To the Ottoman Dynastie. They come and go. Some
day you (plural) wil no longer be the strongest and than
you will be presented the bill for your abuse of power.
In fact you already have been presented part of it.
That was 9/11.

[The Roman Empire lasted centuries.  The American Empire
is just getting started.]

What did you learn from that?

[Not to let our presidents play a fiddle.]

RN>Do you even remember what last Saturday was?

Last Saterday was yesterday. What silly question is that?

[Last Saturday was "Another Saturday Night" - thanks
to Cajun fiddler Doug Kershaw]

MvdV>>The "Fidonews thing" is not a thing of the past.
<del>
MvdV>>We still see a Z1 issue of Fidonews being hatched every week..

RN>I still don't understand why you continue to back
RN>Bj�rn and haven't openly criticized him.

Is it not possible I did so in netmail?

[Anything is possible.  But how much is likely?]

MvdV>>Who is living in the past? Who is trying to bring this echo
MvdV>>back to the status quo of well over a decade ago?

RN>I suppose I started it when I noticed Bj�rn thumbed
RN>his nose at the rest of the Fidonet SysOps and rewrote
RN>this echo's rules,

As mandated by the sysops that elected him.

[What mandate?  What sysops?  In the US Presidential Election
between Al Gore and George W. Bush, not all valid votes cast
were allowed to be counted.  And yet, GWB was declared the
winner, based on those incomplete results, by five handpicked
justices of the US Supreme Court.]

RN>which is now and was then a clear violation
RN>of the rules in force at the time he was elected

Those rules were discarded when he was elected.

[An echo owned and run by sysops means that sysops write the rules.
What are the rules?  Whatever the rules the sysops want them to be.
If the sysops want to change their own rules, they certainly are
free to do so.  After all, it's their rules.  Duh!]

RN>under questionable circumstances.

Though luck you did not like the outcome of the
elecion. You were outvoted. That's democracy. Live
with it.

[Democracy is mob rule.  Where is the mob?]

RN>And you, a learned man, stood by and did nothing.

On the contrary. I voted for Bj�rn and ratified the change of rules.

[What are the rules?  There are no rules.]

Cheers, Michiel

Flower Power,
--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
 * Origin: news://felten.yi.org (2:203/2)