Text 27938, 172 rader
Skriven 2015-09-06 10:27:00 av Bill McGarrity (20131.2fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 27930 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Re: Z1C
===============
-=> David Drummond wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

 DD> On 6/09/2015 3:00 PM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> That's the price one pays for accepting their services, securoty and
 DD>> safety. [...]

 BM> Do you pay to belong to Fidonet?

 DD> Data feeds cost money - as does the hardware.

True, but that is your decision.... not Fido's.  BTW, do you pay taxes in Oz?

 DD>>> Policy 4 is telling me what to do with MY equipment and MY data feeds,
 DD>>> all paid for with MY dollar. Nothing is provided by the Fidonet *C
 DD>>> structure - why would I kowtow to them?

 BM>> OK... I can deal with that.

 BM> Now that you opened the can of worms above... actually spending that $ is
 DD> your
 BM> choice. No one is forcing you to be a nodelisted member.

 DD> Correct - and no-one is going to tell me what to do when I am
 DD> communicating with others.

There's the conundrum... it's like living in Oz.. you play by their rules. 
Same as FIdo. 

 DD> The Internet has no "rules", why should Fidonet?

I see... try downloading child porn and let me know if there are no rules.

 DD> [...]

 DD>> That was then - this is now. Now we don't need them.

 BM> Opinion... which is fine but one little snag.  You're set as PVT and as
 DD> such,
 BM> are dependent on your NC to move your mail

 DD> If you check the nodelist again you will find I have no such dependency
 DD> on the NC.

OK.. do you not have some dependency with some sort of *C to get your netmail?
Lots of them out there that have no idea you're even in the loop.  How does one
send you netmail? I an't send it direct therefore it has to go through one of
the *C's I'm connected to. That in itself blows your theory out of the water.


 BM> both incoming and outgoing. Do you wish to give up that luxury?

 DD> I don't have it now...

 DD>> When Fidonet was POTS only system more cohesion was required for the
 DD>> hierarchical node to node transition of mail. Now we just reach out
 DD>> across the Internet and drop it at the target node (or near to it).
 DD>> No-one has to wear the long distance cost etc.

 BM> It seems it's still required in cases such as yourself.

 DD> Nope no LD costs for my node. - Just normal Internet expenses.

I was talking about your internet expense as you pointed out previously.

 DD> [...]

 DD>> How is that you don't get a vote in your own right? You rely on someone
 DD>> else to represent you - and like real word politicians they rarely do,
 DD>> they support whomever has bought and paid for them. Fidonet is small
 DD>> enough for node level plebiscites to be held.

 BM> It's called a consensus of the net.  It's pretty standard in democratic
 BM> society. Majority wins.

 DD> Each node has a majority of one - the "net" concept is as outdated as
 DD> the zone concept. There is no need for hierarchical mail movement now.

Again, your opinion but without them and their routing procedure how do I send
you a netmail?

 BM> So each member of my net gets to vote.... that results of that vote is
 DD> then fowarded to the RC by the NC.  RC counts all their
 BM> nets votes and majority wins. ZC collects the RC votes.  Now it is
 DD> possible each RC
 BM> may look at the results and use a weighted formula, but I'm sure that
 DD> would be
 BM> part of the original rules of the election.  YMMV.

 DD> That is control by the uber lord.

Do you call your elected officials in Oz uber lords? 

 DD> Y=Try one vote per node, and a central vote counting system - TRUE
 DD> democracy.

Sorry to say you're living a dream... 


 DD> [...]
 BM> I can only speak for my NC and RC.... as they post the results.  Are you
 BM> calling each of them a liar?

 DD> Nope - I'm calling them redundant.

but very efficient. I can only magine trying to keep track of the 30,000+ votes
way back when if they tried it your way.

 DD> [...]

 DD>> I never had any control of Australia.....

 BM> Yet you stay there at the whim of someone you can't even vote for.
 BM> Interesting.

 DD> I had no control of New Zealand either.

 DD> But Fidonet is not a country, it is a collection of private systems
 DD> communicating with each other at theoir own expense. Fidonet itself
 DD> provides NOTHING to that communication, it is all done by individuals

Without the originators of Fido we wouldn't be having this discussion....
respect your elders.. ;)

 DD>> I do however get to control the network/Internet access of over 25,000
 DD>> users world-wide (even some in USA *gasp*). That really gives me a
 DD>> woody I'm sure.

Quite the dreams of grandure there... oh uber lord

 BM> All you get to control being PVT is your little box in the corner.

 DD> The above network I speak of is not Fidonet. It consists of somewhat
 DD> more than one "little box in the corner".

But our discussions have been based on Fido... not you go off on a tangent?
Reel it back or else you've lost the grasp on the reasoning behind this
discussion.

 BM>  Want a voice, stick an INA in there and allow others to contact you.

 DD> Others can communicate with me - simply send an netmail, or say
 DD> something in one of these echoes. my system resides behind NATs -
 DD> somewhat difficult to poll in.

But God forbid... that would depend on a *C to route it to you.

 BM> Till then, you're at the mercy of your NC which,

 DD> My NC is a right utter bastard - I wouldn't leave myself at his mercy.
 DD> My node operates independent of him.

Yet you're still here at his mercy whether you believe it or not.




--

Bill

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