Text 28016, 297 rader
Skriven 2015-09-07 10:01:00 av Bill McGarrity (20205.2fidonews)
  Kommentar till text 28004 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
Ärende: Re: Z1C
===============
-=> David Drummond wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

 DD> @MSGID: <55ED449C.20197.2fidonews@tequilamockingbirdonline.net>
 DD> On 7/09/2015 3:10 PM, Bill McGarrity -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> I don't have a membership card or a membership number. My computer has
 DD>> a node number, just as it has an IP. I am not a member of the Internet
 DD>> either.

 BM> And you use that node number to communicate... therefore to communicate
 DD> via
 BM> this technology, you're a member.

 BM> Just as a user of my BBS is a member.

 DD> Many will disagree witht hat - after all users are NOT allowed to post
 DD> in FN_SYSOP "because they are not members/not nodelisted".

What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? You access Fido, you
communicate through it's technology,  written by those who don't seem to have
your respect for yet you claim to not be a member. To each their own I guess.


 BM> Pretty simple concept.

 DD> Too simple - Are you a member of the local telephone carrier when you
 DD> make a phone call? Even when made form someone else's phone?

When I use their transmission inrastructure, yes. Either I pay for it at a
phone booth or the owner of the phone does. By usage alone I accept their terms
and condistions. Again, a fairly simple and widespread concept.

 DD> [...]
 BM>> So you're admitting you have to follow rules regarding internet usage?
 BM>> Mmmmm...sounds alot like Fido.

 DD>> Nope I obey (some of) the laws of the land.

 BM> Better not let the uber lords of Oz hear that....

 DD> They already know - they issue traffic infingement notices from time to
 DD> time.

So I guess you don't pay them as you think they're exercising too much Khontrol
being you didn't get to vote on the matter... 

 DD>> I don't get child porn via snail mail either. I am not a member of
 DD> Australia Post BTW.

 BM> The thing is, once the lines of communication via the internet hit Oz,
 DD> their
 BM> rules take over.  Just like maritime laws of a country.  International
 DD> waters I
 BM> would agree with you, there are no laws but cross that line... oh well.

 DD> There are no "Internet laws" - there is no need for "Fidonet laws".
 DD> [...]
 DD>> We need nodelist clerks at the moment. If we could come up with a
 DD>> dynamic system - like DHCP, then we wouldn't need them either. True
 DD>> democracy and freedom - everyone with the same (lack of) power.

 BM> Work on that... I'd be interested...

 DD> My interest isn't as strong as it once was. I haven't written any
 DD> Fidonet utilities in a long time. When Fidonet becomes too bothersome
 DD> to keep up with I will just drop out. Unlike some I have a life betong
 DD> the nodelist.

Just as we all do but you seem especially interested in this as more of an OCD
issue. No one is controlling you. You say whatever the hell you feel like and I
guess no one from the Oz uber lord society is breaking your door down... why
stress over bullshit. 


 BM> till then, you're bound by the /clerk/ system.

 DD> Not quite - not every thing happens as per the procedures laid out in
 DD> Pol4. [...]

Has that infringed your ability to communicate?

 BM>> They're caring people.  You may not see it... but there are a few in the
 DD>> world.

 DD>> Very few in Z1 Fidonet (going by the behaviour here)

 BM> Really?  Do you know every listed node member in Z1?

 DD> Nope - only experienced the ones that present here (as mentioned
 DD> above). Thise that do not present here have no contact with me and
 DD> probably care as much as I do for them - they're not real people.
 DD> [...]

So we're all just numbers... Mr. Orwell... you're a genius!!

 BM>>>  How does one send you netmail?

 DD>>> You send it routed I guess - same as you would any other PVT node. I
 DD>>> have received netmails since I have been listed PVT so it must be
 DD>>> possible.

 BM>> My point.

 DD>> We don't need a political layer of power mongers telling us
 BM> what/how to
 DD>> do just to get mail. Just the technical specs.

 BM> But you need the /clerks/... as of now.  Put your system together based on

 DD> DHCP
 BM> then you may have a point.

 DD> Clerks are not a political position, just a utility position. They
 DD> should not be awarded an omnipotent powers (as many seem to o=do at the
 DD> moment).. [...]

Who has been controlling you? You speak of this as if your sitting in shackles
and chains, you fingers in a metal device to prevent you from typing... oh the
humainity!!!

 DD>>> Or you drop it at this net's mail host

 BM>> Which is?

 DD>> 3:640/0 according to a nodelist 247 I collected from Janis yesterday.
 DD>> Are you not seeing that?

 BM> Sure I do... the entry starts with Host. I'm sure that Host is responsible

 DD> for
 BM> the weekly segment of your net.... right?

 DD> Wrong - the host is the mail hub. The NC is (supposedly) responsible
 DD> for the net segment.

And just who is the NC? Could it be Neil in sheeps clothing trying to decieve
you?

 DD> Often they are the same party but not in the case of this net.

 BM> A clerk of as I like to put it, a *C member.

 DD> A host is not necessarily a *C
 DD> [...]

 DD>> Today's Fido does not exist as it did - just a bunch of us sending
 DD>> messages to each other.

 BM> And that has changed from the reasoning of yesteryear? There are many more
 BM> echos other thn this one where people are communicating freely with no
 DD> deep
 BM> rooted strife as to how the magic message appears on their screen.

 DD> Typical consumers. No interest in how the food arrives at their tables
 DD> as long as they get to gorge.

Such a sad outlook on life... tsk tsk...

 DD> [...]
 DD>>> Just the Fidonet ones.

 BM>> So you're saying Fido uber lords are elected? I see.  So either way,
 DD> you're
 BM>> stuck without a vote.

 DD>> Huh? I get to vote in Fidonet elections (that involve me)

 BM> Sure you do, just as you were invited to the one where P4 was looking to
 DD> be
 BM> ratified.

 DD> I was not involved in the vote.

 DD> I was involved in the appointment of the current Z3C, R54c and
 DD> obviously the N640C.

 BM> It's been plainly stated over and over again both in the nodelist,
 BM> usually preceeded with a ;S is infrmation of importance. Can you blame
 BM> anyone but yourself for not personally inviting you to the party?  The
 BM> invitation was sent... you just never RSVP'd.

 DD> The nodelist is intended for computers to consume, not people- thats
 DD> what we have netmail and echoes for.
 DD> [...]

Then why is there an information area within it plainly marked with ;S before
each line? 

 BM> I've been on a ride where close to 1 million bikes showed up in Washington

 DD> DC.
 BM> 600 is a weekend run for us here in the state of NJ... about 1/1000th the
 DD> size
 BM> of Oz.

 DD> And being 1/1000th the size of Aus it is easy for them all to be in the
 DD> same place at the same time. Australia's spread out nature makes such
 DD> gatherings much more of a chore.
 DD> [...]
 DD>> I have entered in to no such agreement. have you been partaking of
 DD>> Joe's secret "reading between the lines" book?

 BM> You just said you have no such feelings for the software authors YET you
 DD> use the very software you mock. Interesting.  Seems with that attitude
 BM> you've lost the respect of the authors.

 DD> Some people have skills that I don't. I have skills that others don't.
 DD> Not a big deal. No need to bow and scrape before them.

No one is asking you to get on bended knee and pay homage... but I guess in
your eyes that's what respect means.

 BM> Guess you know everything so you can write your own.  Good luck.

 DD> I've thought about it but lack the motivation.

Then you can only bitch at yourself...

 DD> [...]
 DD>> I'm pointing out that I am not in Fidonet for the "power and glory"

 BM> No one is...

 DD> Then why won't Janis resign? Why do so many dead echoes have soeone
 DD> listed as their moderator in the almighty Z1 echo list?

Ask her... other than the obvious that internal Z1 memos were sent to all the
*C structure with regard if elections for the Z1C would be necessary to run. 
I've been back a little over two years and I remember getting/seeing a post in
my local net echo about it. If I can rememeber correctly, my net voted staus
quo was acceptable. 


 DD> Because it gives them a woody. Janis even goes so far as to mention her
 DD> *C status on her LinkedIn page..... She obviously sees it as something
 DD> important.

 DD>>> We do have a mail host in this net... My NC need not be involved!

 BM> Yet above you have me the address of a NC as your mail hub.

 DD> 3:640/0 is not the NC of this net - just the mail host. Not everything
 DD> happens in accordance with the way YOU do things.
 DD> [...]
 DD>> We work in this region/zone by cooperation - we don't need rules to
 DD>> make us obey.

 BM> You're following the rules whether you like them or not. Burying your head

 DD> in
 BM> the sand will not make them go away.

 DD> Which Pol4 rules am I actively obeying.?

 DD> Rule 1 perhaps - but them I only speak English so that's not actually
 DD> obeying the rule...

 DD> 1.2.3 - Net 640 is spread of some serious LD calling areas not a "local
 DD> geographic area" at all. As NC am I breaking that rule?

 DD> 1.3.1 - Well, I don't get my Fidonews from 1:1/1

 DD> 1.3.3? Online during ZMH (the keystone of all Fidonet)? Not happening
 DD> at this node.

 DD> 1.3.5? - That's a matter of opinion but it seems I'm breaking that one
 DD> too.

 DD> 1.3.6 - Not currently but I have done in the past.

 DD> 2.1.9 - Some say I should not have a PVT node....

 DD> And so on and so on.

 DD> Any rules I am adhering to is totally an unconscious action - I make so
 DD> effort to do same.

Oblivion... what a concept... 

Enjoy...


--

Bill

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