Text 29831, 158 rader
Skriven 2015-12-28 13:02:59 av David Drummond (3:640/305)
  Kommentar till text 29826 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.73)
Ärende: Rules of Echomail
=========================
On 28/12/2015 9:37 AM, mark lewis -> David Drummond wrote:

 DD>> My cards all appears to have a reading distance of less than one
 DD>> centimetre - even the bus/train fare card.

 ml> how are you testing this? do you have a RFID reader available?

The ones at the retail outlets (mains powered devices). The ones in the buses,
train stations and ferries.

 ml> are you sure they are RFID cards and not the ones with the contacts in
them that
 ml> must be placed in a machine?

The "smart chip" in the card doesn't touch the plastic face of the RFID reader
so it isn't connecting via that method. One just waves the card real close to
the symbol on the EFTPOS device.

If I wish to do a "smart card" transaction I have to insert the chip end of the
card correctly in the slot on the EFTPOS device.

 ml>>> the power output of the reader and its signal gathering capabilities
 ml>>> are also part of the play... it is easy enough to increase the power
 ml>>> output or signal reception of most any radio...

 DD>> So... someone is going to walk around the streets with this enormous
 DD>> equipment rubbing it over the members of the public hoping to read the
 DD>> RFID tag in their cards?

 ml> enormous equipment? dude, please... the demonstration article i linked
 ml> you to used a $50 reader that fit in a pocket... there are small readers
 ml> that connect via bluetooth and usb so can easily be connected to a
 ml> smartphone, pad, tablet, laptop, etc... all they have to do is walk
 ml> around and get near enough to folks to collect the info...

But how near to read a passive card with a tiny antenna? Unless they are far
more sensitive than the "official" readers they'd have to get bloody close.

Could it be that the US is still in the infancy of this technology and haven't
tuned it to the perfection we see here and in Europe?

Or, are there more destitute people in USA who feel a need to pull these
heists?
[...]

 ml>>> don't look now but that PYT standing beside you at the bar has your
 ml>>> numbers...

 DD>> Bar - what bar?

 ml> any bar or other place you may happen to go... grocery store, eatery,
 ml> library, garage, barber shop, florist, park, etc...

I do not frequent places where other people crowd close to me.

Surely if this was so simple many dishonest people would be doing it?

Occasionally the police warn us about being vigilant at ATMs in case someone
has compromised them - to date there have been no such warnings regarding RFID
capable cards. Maybe the police are in on your conspiracy....

Although I do not know everyone in the state I do mix with a fairly large
number of people. None of these people have ever spoken of first hand knowledge
of RFID fraud - of second hand knowledge - of any knowledge at all..
[...]

 ml>>> don't look now but that PYT checking you out at the grocery store has
 ml>>> your numbers...

 DD>> I wonder why they would spend so much effort to collect data that will
 DD>> only reap $100.00, and then not use that data.

 ml> what effort? they only have to carry the device with them and walk
 ml> around... what makes you think that they're transactions are limited to
 ml> only $100? maybe your's are but their's may not be...

The sign at the reatilers - the advertising from the banks. $35.00 limit at
McDonalds, $100.00 for most retailers/fuel outlets/pharmacies etc.

 ml> then again, it doesn't take long to reap 100 $100 sets...

Only of one uses that data to rip off the card holder/banks. No evidence of
that happening anywhere in this nation. They European Fidonetters aren't
mentioning it either....

 ml> that's a nice little haul for 30 minutes of walking around at the mall...

And yet so far no one has been caught doing it in Australia - no mention of it
to the public at all.

If the banks are having to repay all of these millions stolen through RFID
fraud aren't they going to start telling us to be careful with our cards,
perhaps to invest in the wallets with the built in Faraday shields?

Nope - no word from the banks either.

 DD>> Something like this happening would be jumped on immediately by the
 DD>> media - and yet we have had nothing mentioned about it. The crooks in
 DD>> Australia seem to prefer placing readers in/on ATMs and collecting far
 DD>> bigger returns.

 ml> it can only be jumped on by the media if there are reports about it...
 ml> it is all too apparent that many companies are still keeping reports
 ml> under wraps and publically announcing them only when they have to...

And the banks? They covering up their losses because...? People talk -
something like this couldn't be hidden for long. We've had RFID cards/payment
method here for a few years now.

It is interesting that the last to conform to the RFID technology is my Amex
card....

 ml>>>>> how much are they charging you for this or the chip service? the
 ml>>>>> charges are buried in your fees somewhere, somehow... they're not
 ml>>>>> doing this for free...

 DD>>>> There are NO fees on my bank account/card use. Remember, I am not
dealing with a US bank - I'm dealing with one
 DD>>>> that actually offers service.

 ml>>> if they aren't charging you any fees, how are they staying in
 ml>>> business? are they laundering all the $$$ they handle??

 DD>> I would imagine that they invest the funds deposited with them for
 DD>> greater returns than they pay us depositors in interest.

 ml> ahhh... so they are /gambling/ with your money...

I guess lending money to home purchasers may be deemed gambling - along with
personal loans. As most loans are secured I guess if the borrower defaults the
bank forecloses, repossesses the asset, and pays me my interest/withdrawals.

 ml> stocks are nothing more then gambling...

My deposits with this bank (and others) are guaranteed by the government (up to
$1 million).

I don't care what the bank does with the money - as long as they keep paying me
interest, and honouring the card transactions I negotiate. I guess its nice
that cash comes out of an ATM when I ask.

 DD>> Paywave costs the bank a negligible amount - it is the retailer that
 DD>> has to pay for the RFID reading equipment. The bank is already set up
 DD>> for digital transaction data - from the earlier implemented swipe and
 DD>> smart card data flow.

 ml> the fees roll downhill... you are paying for it... somehow... somewhere...

Yes - they could be paying me more interest I suppose. What percentage interest
do you get on your savings from your bank?

-- 

regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
 * Origin: Cleveland, Qld, Australia (3:640/305)