Text 33429, 133 rader
Skriven 2016-05-23 06:06:38 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
  Kommentar till text 33418 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:2/2.0)
Ärende: TTIP
============
Hello Michiel,

 FR>                  Why I shall vote against TTIP
 FR>                  By Michiel van der Vlist, 2:280/5555

 FR> TTIP stand for Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership. It is
 FR> a proposed trade agreement between the Europen Union and the United
 FR> States of America. It is presently being negotiated. The negotiations
 FR> are conducted in secret but some information was leaked out. The
 FR> genaral idea is to tear down trade barriers and that presumably is
 FR> good for the economy of all countries concerned. I have my doubts.

What is the TTIP expected to do?  For both the US and the EU,
this trade agreement is expected to be a very good deal.  Here's
why -

* It boosts the US and EU economies, thus making everybody happier.
* It creates new business and trade opportunities in the US and EU.
* It sets common standards and helps to standardize regulations.
* Common standards and standardized regulations help facilitate the
 actions of companies so that more business can be generated.
* It removes some market barriers and promotes the free market.
* The removal of tariffs means products will be cheaper for consumers
 in both the US and EU.

When consumers have more money, they wind up spending more money.
When consumers spend more money, then more revenue for government
coffers is received.  When government gets more revenues, more
services are provided for the people.  Therefore, the TTIP is a
win-win situation for all.

If you want to make money, you have to spend money.  Preferably
other people's money.  That is the way things work, and have always
worked.  Not this austerity hogwash, which always leads to economic
depression.  I mean, nobody saves money.  Much better to spend.

 FR> The very fact that the negatiations are conducted in secret is a
 FR> reason for concern. I also have reservations about the parts that
 FR> leaked out. But that is not the main reason that, if and when TTIP is
 FR> the subject of a referendum here in The Netherlands later this year,
 FR> I will vote against.

Oh, come now.  Secret deals are never that secret.  Especially when
it comes to trade.  Negotiations between parties are always done in
private, but debated and voted on in public.

Why does the US and EU want to have a vote on the TTIP this year
rather than wait until later?  Because extremists on the right are
on the march in France and in Germany, as well as in the US.  And
those extremists are nationalists.  Donald Trump in the US, and I
am sure you are aware of the right-wing parties in France and in
Germany.  Not quite sure about Italy.  But Italy has gone through
lots of governments since WWII.  Too many to count.

 FR> No, it is not what is or will be in the agreed rules that concerns me
 FR> most. It goes much deeper than that and it can not be repaired by
 FR> rewriting the rules. The main reason I will vote against is that I do
 FR> not trust our partners across the pond to loyaly honour the
 FR> agreements when push comes to shove.

"World views US trade officials as `saps'." - Donald Trump, 12/1999

The Donald has not changed his views much, if at all, on that matter.

"Renegotiate tougher & fairer trade agreements." - Donald Trump, 7/2000

"Stupid people negotiate our trade bills, & trade won't work."
- Donald Trump, 6/2015

 FR> Sadly enough it is incidents in Fidonet that were the trigger for
 FR> this decision. The most recent incident was the FIDO_SYSOP moderator
 FR> election. What we saw there was a pretty clear rule. "Once a year, as
 FR> close to mid March as practical, an election is held". That however
 FR> was not convenient for our fellow sysops across the pond. So instead
 FR> of loyally following the rule, they did what we have seen many times
 FR> over in Fidonet before: they re‹nterpreted and twisted the rules,
 FR> called on unwriten rules and "traditions", to make the rules fit to
 FR> what was convenient for them.

Nobody knows who wrote P4.  Only a very small handful of sysops
bothered to "ratify" it, and no provision was made to allow for
amendments.  Even though it is just a scrap piece of cyberjunk,
some folks actually worship it as if it was some kind of holy
relic.  But enough of that.  There are more important matters
to discuss.

 FR> Some even told us we misundertood the rules because of our lack of
 FR> understanding of the English language. If that were true, we should
 FR> not engage in agreements written in English at all. We may not be
 FR> smart enough to properly understand English, we sure are not so
 FR> stupid as to agree to to something we presumable do not understand.

French is the language of diplomacy.  Perhaps Fidonet would be
wise to adopt that fine language for that purpose?

 FR> And in the end, as ever so often the ones for whom the rules were not
 FR> convenient tried to get their way by right of might.

America did create Mighty Mouse.  ;)

 FR> In Fidonet the US sysops can no longer rule by right of might. Right
 FR> of might only works for the strongest and that they no longer are.
 FR> Not in Fidonet. But in the real world things are different. The US is
 FR> still the most powerfull economy and has the most powerfull military
 FR> in the world. That may change in the not too distant future, but for
 FR> now they still are. So in a trade agreement between the US and EU,
 FR> the EU is the weaker party.

China is reputed to have the most powerful economy in the world.
Also the most powerful military, given the number of soldiers it
can suit up.  But America has two things going for it -  Mighty
Mouse, and Mickey Mouse.  Plus all them M & M candies.

 FR> So what I fear is that whenever there is a conflict of interest and
 FR> the agreed rules are not in their favour, our trade partners across
 FR> the Atlantic will turn and twist the rules to their advantage and get
 FR> away with it by right of might. And so the EU, as the weaker party,
 FR> will always end up with the short stick.

"Trade pacts are no good for us and no good for our workers."
- Donald Trump, 2/2016

 FR> I shall vote against TTIP because I do not trust you guys across the
 FR> pond the be loyal and reliable partners.

"20% tax on imported goods." - Donald Trump, 12/2011

"35% import tax on Mexican border." - Donald Trump, 6/2015

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
 * Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)