Text 34648, 88 rader
Skriven 2016-07-24 10:51:34 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
     Kommentar till en text av Allen Prunty (6059.fidonews)
Ärende: Echolist:  For or Against it is necessary...
====================================================
Hello Allen,

On Saturday July 23 2016 11:13, you wrote to me:

 AP> I'm not trying to cause trouble just want to learn a bit here.

You may not want to cause trouble, but you are rocking the boat...

 AP> How on earth does Z2 know what echos are available?

We don't.

 AP> How do you keep a catalog of them?

We don't.

 AP> Where Z1 tends to like things "centralized" it seems that Z2 likes to
 AP> "decentralize" everythign.  But regardless, eventually there has to be
 AP> one centralized point where everything is assembled and listed?

The fact that we heve been doing without such a centralised point for over two
decades, proves that we can do without. The problem with "centralised" is that
it implies control. And control brings fights over who controls what. So no
thanks.

 AP> Example 1

 AP> So how do you guys truly know what's out there?

We don't.

 AP> I tried to resssurrect an echo that was dead for over 8 months and
 AP> suddenly someone pops up and says it wasn't dead and it wasn't
 AP> adoptable.  I get actual traffic going in ther that was on topic that
 AP> was soon soured by Z2 sysops who were screaming that I hijacked a dead
 AP> echo...

Which you did, hijac it. Why did you have to do that in the first place? why
did you have to revive an echo that you thought was dead? And if you wanted to
create some flow, why did you have to grab the listing and the moderator hat?
Why do you have to plant your flag all over the net like a tomcat in heat?

 AP> yet there's been no traffic or no listing of anyone wanting
 AP> to maintain or promote the echo.

So why not let it rest in peace? Look at the statistics Janis publishes weekly
in her toy magaizine. There are hundreds of echos. There are more echos than
there are active participants. Most of those echos are dead, What Fidonet does
not need is more echos and more moderators. What Fidonet needs that people
shelve their egos and clean out the dead wood.

 AP> You see my point of confusion?  The Echolist -is- a good tool to know
 AP> if an echo is owned, active, and available.

Unfortunately is is also a tool for control and with control come the fights.
We have had enough of that. You were not there two decades ago or you missd it.
I was there and saw it happen. We were tired of the fights over control and so
when Pweter Witschii resigned he was not replaced and we did without an
echolist. It worked for us.

 AP> Wether or not the Z1 Echolist is used there is a need for some sort of
 AP> central echolist for Z2.

No there is no such need.

If you really want to help, then accept that we have been doing without a Z2
echolist for two decades, that we are doing fine without it and that we do not
want to set the clock back 20 years to return to the days of that fight.

If you really want to help and get some piece bewteen the zones, you should
accept that we do things different here. If you really want to help, you should
stop trying to ram the Z1 way of ding things down our throat. And not only
that, you should tell the echolist fans your side of the pond to do the same.

 AP> I'm not trying to cause trouble

Then stop trying to ram the Z1 way of doing things down our throat. We had an
echolist, we dumped it. We don't want it anymore. We don't want the control and
the fights that come with it any more. 'We don't want our own list and we
certainly don't want your list rammed down our throat.

We do not have an echolist and we do not recognise yours. Accept that.


Cheers, Michiel

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