Text 9389, 153 rader
Skriven 2013-07-26 23:16:00 av Dale Shipp (1:261/1466.0)
   Kommentar till text 9383 av Michiel Van Der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Re: Social Security
===========================
 -=> On 07-26-13  12:57,  Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-
 -=> spoke to Dale Shipp about Social Security <=-

 MVDV> Belief is accepting things as fact without having any proof.

Believe also means to consider it likely.  You are too tied up with your
anti-religion notion of "believe".
 
 DS> [quote]
 DS> 7/8/2013
 MVDV> What I meant to convey is that applications for a node number will be
 MVDV> judged irrespective of personality. Unlike apparently Ward's request
 MVDV> for a node number in Montana.

 MVDV> I did not present is as if it were a fact. You ignore the word
 MVDV> "apparently". 

Which is to imply that you feel it is likely, i.e. you believe.

 DS> 7/10/2013
 MVDV> Of course, but the strong suspicion that ward's request for a node
 MVDV> number was denied for personal reasons remains. As I noted it was not
 MVDV> denied by any of the powers that be...

 MVDV> Again: I did not present is as fact. Note the word 
 MVDV> "suspicion". That means I consider it a possibility, not a proven
 MVDV> fact. 

See above.

 DS> 7/21/2013
 MVDV> It can be denied by anyone knowing the facts. So far those claiming to
 MVDV> know the facts only confirm my suspicion. [/quote]

 MVDV> See above.
 
 DS> On the 8th, you are stating your belief that Ward's request for a node
 DS> number in Montana was denied because of personality -- without any
 DS> evidence that is fact.

 MVDV> No, I am not stating it as a belief. See above. The "belief part" is
 MVDV> where  you are reaing something that is not there.

If you did not consider it likely, then you were merely trying to blow
smoke.

 DS> You repeat essentially the same unsupported allegation on the 10th,
 DS> and then again on the 21st -- where you admit making a statement of
 DS> your suspicion, aka belief.

 MVDV> And here is where you go wrong. You equate suspicion to belief.

I equate your statement of suspicion with your belief that it is
possible or even likely.
 
 DS> In all cases you are stating what you believe or suspect to be the
 DS> truth,

 MVDV> There is a big difference between "believing to be true" 
 MVDV> and "suspecting to be true".

Either you believe it to be likely, or not.  If not then you are merely
fabricating rumors.
 
 DS> even though no evidence for your statement has been presented.


 MVDV> Suspicion however is driven by "indicators" and several
 MVDV> have been presented to you:

 MVDV> 1) Ward applied for a Z1 node number for his system in Montana. Twice.

Not a proven fact.

 MVDV> 2) Both the applications did not result in a node listing.

See above.

 MVDV> 3) No technical reasons were given.

Unknown.

 MVDV> 4) Someone claimed a vote was held. You said I should not 
 MVDV> believe everything Roy Witt claims and of course you are 
 MVDV> right. But oddly enough you have left it at that, you 
 MVDV> claimed Roy's claim had no credibility but you have not 
 MVDV> actually denied such a vote took place. Nor has anyone else.

How could I deny something that probably did not happen.  I stated my
opinion.

 MVDV> 5) You stated that some in Z1 do not trust Ward's motives. 
 MVDV> Now why did you state that? Motives should not be a 
 MVDV> consideration when applying for a node number, so why 
 MVDV> mention it?

I stated my opinion.  My opinion has no effect on whether or not Ward
applies for a node number in Z1 nor on whether or not he is granted one.

 MVDV> 6) Z1C comemented on Ward's "need" for the node umber. Is
 MVDV> he collecting them? she asked. This indicates that Z1C 
 MVDV> involved herself.

She stated an opinion, which also has no effect on the outcome.

 MVDV> 7) Some claimed Ward's only reason for wanting a Z1 node 
 MVDV> number was to get access to Z1C. No one denied this was a 
 MVDV> reason for not granting the request for a node number.

No one here has denied that the moon is made of green cheese either.
Both statements are equally relevant.

 MVDV> 8) Personal reasons have been a factor in other incidents concerning
 MVDV> Ward and  the powers that be in Z1. He was kicked out of Z1C. Not 
 MVDV> because he violated the area rules, but because of what he 
 MVDV> wrote or did elsewhere. i.e personal reasons.

Moderator's perogative.

 MVDV> 9) True, there are a number of possible reasons why a node 
 MVDV> number was denied. But oddly enough none were given. My 
 MVDV> suspicion that personal reasons were involved could very 
 MVDV> easily be eliminated if someone in the chain of command 
 MVDV> would clearly state the reasons why Ward's applications did 
 MVDV> not result in a node number.  But nothing happens. Silence 
 MVDV> everywhere. The word "Omerta" comes to mind.

Now you are really going over the deep end into conspiracy theories.

 MVDV> Your attitude does not help either. You start a diversion by
 MVDV> questioning my  alleged beliefs. But you do nothing to eliminate
 MVDV> "personal  reasons" from the list of possible reasons.

Maybe the NC in question does not like people with grey beards?  That is
just as plausible as any thing you have put forth.  You can speculate
all you want.  The fact remains that *ONLY* the NC in question can state
*IF* he has denied an application for a node number for Ward, and what
the reason for doing so was.  Nothing anyone else says has any bearing.

 MVDV> So my suspicion remains.

Continue believing what you wish.

                               Dale Shipp
                  fido_261_1466 (at) verizon (dot) net
                              (1:261/1466)


... Shipwrecked on Hesperus in Columbia, Maryland. 23:10:27, 26 Jul 2013
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