Text 9784, 260 rader
Skriven 2013-08-18 15:58:06 av Lee Lofaso (2:203/2)
   Kommentar till text 9625 av Gary Perkins (11686.fidonews)
Ärende: How to raise a panic
============================
Hello Gary,

 LL>> Doubtful.  Remember, The One is term-limited and thus will not be
 LL>> seeking a consecutive third term ...

 GP>> Or any third term, thank Goodness.  The 22nd Amendment is clear on
 GP>> that.

 LL>> Clear as mud, to be sure.

 LL>> After serving two consecutive terms, a president must leave office.
 LL>> After somebody else has had his/her turn, the former president would
 LL>> then be free to serve a new first term (and be re-elected to a second
 LL>> consecutive term).

GP>While people often talk about consecutive terms, they did not
GP>include that wording when passing the 22nd.

It should be kept in mind the amendment did not apply to incumbent
President Harry S Truman, who could have continued serving as president
for as long as he kept winning re-election to office.  However, Harry
was a nice guy and chose to make way for the General.  Besides, Harry
and Bess much preferred their little white house in Missouri rather
than that big white house in Washington DC.  Much easier to keep
clean, if you know what I mean.

GP>The relevant text is: "No person shall be elected to the office of
GP>the President more than twice".

The relevant word is: "elected"

The word "twice" is inferred as to meaning "consecutive" terms.

Think about it.

We elect our presidents to serve one term at a time.
In 2008, Barack Obama was elected as President, becoming
our 44th President.  In 2012, President Barack Obama was
elected to a second consecutive term, remaining our 44th
President.  If former President Jimmy Carter were to run,
and be elected to serve another term in office, he would
become this country's 45th President.  Even though he
served as our country's 39th President.  George H.W. Bush
could do the same as Jimmy Carter, only his numbers being
slightly different (41 and 45).  And God forbid we ever
have GWB as our 43rd and 45th President ...

Do keep in mind that Barack Obama is our 44th President,
even though only 43 individuals (including GWB) have served
as President.

GP>That's the beauty of constitutional law -- they keep it
GP>simple and to the point, so that there is as little ambiguity
GP>as possible.

Really?  If so, then what is keeping Bill Clinton from serving
as President?  All the amendment says is about who can be *elected*
President.  Certainly former President Bill Clinton can be appointed
President.  That's how Gerald Ford got the job.  And George W. Bush.
Although Gerald Ford was the only one who did so in a legitimate way.

GP>Otherwise it would have read something like "No person shall be
GP>elected to the office of the President more than two consecutive
GP>terms".

The word is unnecessary, as it is inferred.  One comes before two,
two comes before three, three comes before four, etc.  Once the count
has stopped, a new count must begin -

One, two.  End.
One, two.  End.
One, two.  End.

Of course, it can also read -

One.  End.
One.  End.

We did have one president who actually did that,
thus becoming two presidents rather than one.

Of even this way -

One.  End.

Jimmy Carter and George H.W. Bush are in that category.

The only way a count could have reached more than two was before the
22nd amendment (excluding Harry Truman, as the amendment did not apply
to him).  Only one person fit that category, FDR -

One, Two, Three, Four.  End.

FDR could have served forever but death got him first.

GP>The other parts furthur explain that should someone fall into the
GP>Presidency without election (VP taking over for instance), then they
GP>can only be elected once.

You better rethink that part.  Up until 1967, every vice president
who stepped in due to the death of a president has served as *acting*
president rather than president.  Until being duly elected president,
that is.

President Lincoln was shot and killed by an assassin in 1865.
Vice President Johnson then took over as *acting* president, never
being elected to the office himself.  As such, Johnson was never
President of the United States.

President Kennedy was shot and killed by an assassin in 1963.
Vice President Johnson then took over as *acting* president, never
being elected to the office until 1964, defeating Barry Goldwater
in a landslide.  Only after Johnson took the oath of office in 1965
was Lyndon Johnson officially President of the United States.

In 1967, LBJ issued an executive order doing away with the *acting*
part of being president.  That is why, to this very day, every
President remains wide awake even while unconscious.  That's right.
Ronald Reagan was wide awake as surgeons removed that bullet from
his chest.  George W. Bush was wide awake as surgeons removed a
polyp from his colon.  Barack Obama remains wide awake, not having
had any sleep since January 20, 2009.

GP>The last part is no longer relevent, having to do with the
GP>presidency while the law was being written and ratified (a
GP>grandfather clause).

Only because President Harry S Truman insisted on that part.

 LL>> Former President Bill Clinton noted the 22nd Amendment is poorly
 LL>> worded and should be changed so that everybody could understand it
 LL>> properly.  He also mentioned that he was a young man when first
 LL>> elected, and that people are living longer today.  In fact, I do
 LL>> believe President Bill Clinton would still be President today,
 LL>> serving his sixth consecutive term.

GP>He was being a typical politician trying to get a feel for the
GP>political climate, thinking that if the timing was right he may get
GP>support to either amend the text or get the Judicial to favorably
GP>rule on it.

There is no precedent.  A former President who has served two terms
would have to be *elected* to another term in order for the courts to
even consider the case.  And no Supreme Court is going to go against
the wishes of the American people.

The President is supposed to be the choice of the American people.
It doesn't always work out that way (re: Bush v Gore).  But in almost
all such cases, the courts will rule in favor of the people.

 LL>> But hey.  We're not talking about Mr. Bill.  This is about The One.

 LL>> Another option for The One is to be Hillary Clinton's running mate.
 LL>> Wouldn't that be a stunner?  The Dream Ticket - Clinton/Obama in 2016.

GP>Not going to happen.

I cannot imagine any former President wanting to serve another term
in office.  Even if they could, why would they want to?  Look at our
former Presidents.  None of them seem to be interested in running
for office.  Or serving in an appointed position.  Oh, Walter Mondale
did, as Ambassador to Japan.  But he is a former Vice President, not
a former President.

OTOH, I can see President Barack Obama serving as a future justice
on the US Supreme Court ...

GP>Eligibility for VP is tied to the Presidency.

Being elected vice president and being elected president
are two very different things.

GP>If he's ineligible for President, he's inelgibile for the VP.

An elected (or appointed) vice president does not have to be
elected president in order to serve as president.

GP>Of course, this *particular* scenario of losing eligibility via the
GP>22nd hasn't been tested in the Supreme Court, so he's welcome to try
GP>if his party is gutsy enough to nominate him.

The 22md amendment merely limits an incumbent president from being
elected to a third consecutive term.  Nothing more, nothing less.

President Barack Obama is the 44th President, serving his second
elected term in office.  In due accordance with the 22nd amendment,
he will leave office on January 20, 2017.  If he so desires, he can
run for president and be elected to serve another first term, and
subsequent second term.  Only, his second time around would not be
as the 44th President, but some later number.

We elect our presidents to serve one term at the time.

There is nothing in the US Constitution forbidding a former
President from serving as Vice President, just as there is nothing
in the US Constitution forbidding a former President from serving
as President.  As long as he is not elected to a third consecutive
term, all is fine.

 LL>> That's right.  There is nothing in the Constitution forbidding Barack
 LL>> Obama from being elected Vice President in 2016.  Nor is there anything
 LL>> in the Constitution forbidding Barack Obama from serving as President
 LL>> upon future President Hillary Clinton's resignation from office.

GP>Amendment 12 (rather lengthy, I'll skip to the last sentence):

You're really reaching, or stretching, in an effort to make a case.  :)

GP>But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President
GP>shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.

David Duke ran for president, even though he was ineligible to the
office, being too young for the job.  He wasn't elected, so all was
well.

Huey P. Long ran for US Senate, even though he was ineligible to the
office, being too young for the job.  He was elected, so all was not
well.  Nobody bothered to contest the election in the courts, since
that would have been suicide (if you were from Louisiana).  So what
happened?  Huey P. Long remained Governor of Louisiana, waiting until
he came of age to take the job as US Senator.

What do you think the courts will say if the American people elect
an individual who is "constitutionally ineligible" to the office of
President or Vice President?  The courts will abide by the choice
of the people - the individual elected to that office.

GP>Theoretically, he could be elected Speaker of the House (there's no
GP>rule stating the Speaker has to be a member),

Republicans electing Bill Clinton as Speaker of the House?
Or Barack Obama?  You gotta be kiddin' me ...

In all seriousness, there is no rule forbidding a former President
from being elected or appointed as Vice President.

GP>and he could assasinate the sitting President and VP,

That would get him in a bit of trouble, as this country has very
strict laws against murder, especially when done in cold blood.  :)

GP>and still wouldn't be accepted as president -- the succession would
GP>just pass over him due to ineligibility, all the way down the line.

There is absolutely nothing in the US Constitution that forbids
a former President who has served two consecutive terms as President
from serving as (elected or appointed) Vice President.  If the sitting
President dies in office, or becomes incapacited, the former President
who is serving as Vice President then takes the oath of office as
President of the United States.  The number of terms a former President
has served, consecutive or not, makes no difference.

"No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than
twice" - the wording of "twice" is implied to be consecutive terms,
the phrase "elected to the office" clearly meaning election to office.

--Lee

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