Text 230, 152 rader
Skriven 2005-04-28 21:40:52 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.0)
    Kommentar till text 218 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Changing FTS-0001.
==========================
 > Lets be frank.  I can not afford at this time to destabilize
 > my system as I'm now Z6C.

 MvdV> Even without the ZC hat, I fully understand you don't want to
 MvdV> mess with a system as stablke as yours when you will be away for
 MvdV> extened times. I still don';t know how you do it; runnin a system
 MvdV> that keeps on running in the autopilot for 8 month.

to be totally honest, it is not all that hard... my RA/FD/FE system ran totally
on autopilot for over 2 years while i dealt with sever burnout and
depression... automation is the key to the answer... something that many seem
to fight and deny...

it also depends highly on a stable operating system... M$ just hasn't had one
IM(H)O since they abandoned DOS... IBM's OS/2 has been my platform since it was
released... take that for what it is worth...

 > I plan (among the moelhills, and a more topmost one) to setup a
 > secondary system with IP capability and if it proves *stable* to
 > eventually swap to it.

 MvdV> It will be difficult to get the same stability as you have now. I
 MvdV> had the same decision to make when I added IP capability. My POTS
 MvdV> only system has been running on a DOS machine until Sept 2003.
 MvdV> There was no way that I could make it take care of IP too, DOS is
 MvdV> ony stable in a single task environment, I never could get a
 MvdV> /stable/ multitasker for DOS.

DESQview worked great for me... however, i never attempted to network a DV
machine... networked machines are a requirement in my current setup...

 MvdV> S I switched to Win98 for the IP part and later swapped to POTS
 MvdV> part to the Win98 machne as well. It works but it isn't by far as
 MvdV> stable as the good old DOS system. It needs a reboot now and
 MvdV> then.

 MvdV> Maybe you should go Linux.

that would depend on the system requirements...

MvdV>> flaws. I either have to learn to live with them or look further. But t
MvdV>> problem is that whenever you find an alternative that seems to solve o
MvdV>> problem, you always run into a new incompatibility problem with existi
MvdV>> software. So one has to settle for something less than perfect.

 > Havent even checked if Chinese script might have some problem.
 >  While we have a few nodes listed there, they do not travel
 > the mainstream echos often enough to have generated any
 > 'complaints'.

 MvdV> Chinese script in FidoNet?

the russians do along with several other nationalities that use their native
character sets...

 > I do not know if a future China will grow in fidonet, but
 > awareness should be there that their codepage may conflict
 > with some standard as well.

 MvdV> I have never heard of a Chinese codepage. Unlike the Japanese
 MvdV> Kanyi set, the Chinese alphabet has thousands of characters. How
 MvdV> can they ever get that into an 8 bit character set?

that's why there's been a push for unicode since many years back... long before
you or i were selected to the FTSC...

 MvdV> You know Carol, that is one of the reasons I am sceptical when
 MvdV> claims are made about Fidonet nodes in China. FidoNet is based on
 MvdV> 8 (actually just 7) bit character text only.

that was in the beginning... the problem has been human doorstops getting in
the way for much much far too long...

 MvdV> There is no way that one can decently fit Chinese in such a
 MvdV> scheme. 

what's wrong with unicode??

 MvdV> You need a graphic environment or at least a 16 bit
 MvdV> character set. 

so if they use a GUI (as many do for their BIG5 and such) let them... those
stuck in 7 and 8 bit mode will have to suffer or "grow up" and get a GUI that
supports their mode of operations if they want to participate with those using
BIG5 or such...

BTW, FWIW: i've seen BIG5 and other asian character sets done in "textmode"
(ie: without a GUI but that would depend on the definition of GUI)...

 MvdV> So if there is Fidonet in China, they will have to make do with 
 MvdV> an ugly transliteration or a VERY limited representation of 
 MvdV> their character set. Or they will have to use another language. 
 MvdV> I don't think that will be satisfactory for the average user. 

it has been that kind of doorsto mentality that has fubar'd many things... it
is one of the reasons why fidonet is in the shambles it is in today...

 MvdV> A medium that does not allow decent comunication in one's own
 MvdV> laguage won'tattrackt many users and those users certainly won't
 MvdV> stay if an alternative becomes available.

that's a very huge bit of truth... and it points directly to the
stick-in-the-mud doorstop problems that have plagued fidonet for 15+ years...

 > I am in favor of allowing any codepage to be used as long as the
 > effect is cosmetic on those who do not share the same one. I am
 > adverse to mandating any one if it costs us nodes.

 MvdV> So am I. In fact I am adverse to ANY change that is not downward
 MvdV> compatible. That is why I have problems with numbers in the phone
 MvdV> numbers field that aren't phone numbers. That is why I have
 MvdV> problems with ION hosts.

then you are a doorstop stick-in-the-mud... not everything is or can be
"downward" [sic: should be backward] compatible...

 MvdV> Force people to upgrade their software and many of them will
 MvdV> leave. We can't afford that.

bullshit... those who want to make things work will... those who want to
upgrade will... those who don't are stuck in the mud O;)

 MvdV> Other han that, these codepages are a kludge as well. Many
 MvdV> languages need more than the 96 characters that the ASCII set can
 MvdV> provide. Codepages can solve most of the problems as most
 MvdV> languages (except for Chinese) can do with 2 times 96 characters.

there is more than codepages... there are also character sets... and i'll also
mention unicode...

 MvdV> But... there is still no way that I can use German and Cyrillic
 MvdV> in the same text. If I use codepage 866, I have to forgo of the
 MvdV> umlauts. And vice versa. 

then you are one of us who would need to upgrade to new software rather than to
stick with the old world ways...

 MvdV> The only way around this is to allow 16 bit characters. Or
 MvdV> preferebly a mixed set, such as UTF8. UTF8 is downward
 MvdV> compatible...

 MvdV> But I doubt if I will see the day that all of FidoNet goes
 MvdV> UTF8... 

if everyone keeps on fighting about everything effin' thing, that's very
true... it is that fighting why many have become silent and why others have
left without a word... keep on fighting, ok? it is just another nail in the
coffin...

)\/(ark

 * Origin:  (1:3634/12)