Text 265, 169 rader
Skriven 2005-05-07 20:05:28 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
    Kommentar till text 250 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Re: Changing FTS-0001.
==============================
Sorry for the hiatus.  I was being fed traffic at sea but too busy to do
replies.

*** Quoting Michiel van der Vlist from a message to Carol Shenkenberger ***

MvdV> Eh? You mean he does not have a machine of his own?

MvdV> These days computers are so cheap that one can easely afford to let ea
MvdV> member of the family have its own. That is unless you want the latest
MvdV> of the latest, but most of the time they don't need that.

One cable modem port, no way to afford 2.  I can easily have a dozen
stand-alones but that's not what is needed.

 > He's a lovely man but not a geek and it's too confusing for
 > him, so I'm stuck with a WIN XP solution as needed.  I also
 > want a JAM message base as I'm interested in Jamnntp.

MvdV> So am I and that is the main reason I finally took the plunge and star
MvdV> looking for another editor. The one I have been using almost since day

Same here.

MvdV>> Chinese script in FidoNet?

 > I am not sure what script, I called it chinese.  Used to be we
 > had some 10 or so .ch echos out here.  Reputed to be in
 > chinese.  How did they do it?  I do not know.

MvdV> SO you have never actually seen one f these echos?

Nope.  Just have notes about them (never said other mind you about them).

 > I always presumed they had more than one writing style just like the
 > japanese.

MvdV> I was aware that Japanese has an official transliteration in latin scr
MvdV> I was not aware it exist for Chinese.

It does although I cant read it because I cant read chinese language. I see it
out here in Asia though.  I figure it's a phonetic translation and as the
phoenetics do not match, it must be a bit wierd. But then, USA 'phonetics' do
not match.  I remember getting a wrong answer on a spelling quiz as a kid when
I moved to Charlottesville VA.  Teacher said you 'drive on a root' spell
'root' so I did.  She meant route.  (R OOO T vs R-oww-T).  Aint no suprize
some kids on first try will spell 'termater' for tomato either.

The glory of a 'pictogram' type of writing is that this is never a problem but
the gap is they are less flexible and *much* harder to learn to read.  Hence,
many cultures are sorta 'swapping' slowly and if they never had phonetic
writing, are adapting to it as a secondary skill.  At least, that iswhat I
seem to see out here (more then China, I mean Asia as a group).


 > I know I've seen 'chinese in english script' out
 > here from time to time so maybe thats what they did?

MvdV> Maybe. I doubt if that will be very satisfactory though.

Works for a start.  At least, with street signs and such which is what I'd
mostly be looking for where i travel.

 > That may be a goodly part of why China seems to have not
 > kicked off on the BBS scene.

MvdV> That may be one of the reasons yes. There may also be political and ec
MvdV> reasons.

Quite probably.  One other kicker is out here, it is very common that a house
can be wired for just one phone.  Thats it.  Other options may not be possible
outside the capitol city level areas.  You can ask, but it may take a very
LONG time to get a second line, if it's even possible.  That may have a goodly
bit to do with Fidonet levels out here.


 > The average chinese 'bbs' is an internet site, perhaps with shared
 > groups,

MvdV> And that technology supports Chinese....

Yup.


 > but no connect to fidonet.

MvdV> And so they aren't FidoNet nodes.

Never said they were.  That is where some of them went though.  It is also
adwareladen to go searching for them.  Bad juju I assure you as to my dismay I
have found out.

MvdV>> downward compatible. That is why I have problems with numbers
MvdV>> in the phone numbers field that aren't phone numbers. That
MvdV>> is why I have problems with ION hosts.

 > Well, I'm close to you on many things although perforce, I'll
 > have to deal with ION hosts out here.

MvdV> No you don't. Now that you are ZC you have the opportunity to reorgani
MvdV> the zone.

No.  Please, LISTEN to me.  You are dreaming.  I do not have the resources in
this smaller zone that is more IP intense percentage than any other zone out
there, to do this thing you desire.  When you and some others in Z2 speak on
this, they think with the mindset of at least 4 of 5 nodes have a POTS line.

For all of that, the call was clear.  Z6 nodes do not want to demise or join
another zone at this time.  My job, impossible as it is, is to try to get us
inline with the rest of you in such a mode as we can, as compatibly as we can
and where we vary, do so in such a way as to not cause harm.

I am less than happy with the 000- standard, and even less happy as time goes
on and i recognize I'm the area most apt for a Z3 innocent sysop to attempt to
direct dial as they check on a sysop that lives where they might vacation.

What i need is an answer that unties Pvt and -Unpublished-.  The software is
there.  It's just getting people to implement it that may be the problem.

In the meantime, with extreme unhappiness, I have to shift nodes to 000-0-0-0-0
for the phone line shortly or risk yet more bogus numbers.  At least that one
is known and folks should be aware to block it.

MvdV> My stance has always been that if a net can not come up with a host th
MvdV> at least POTS capable, the problem should be solved by merging with a
MvdV> neighbouring net. Node numbers should be assigned on technical reasons
MvdV> not social ones, so says P4.

Your stance is understandable but not usable where I am.

MvdV> Throw out all the dead wood and how many nodes are left? Five? Ten? C'
MvdV> how many nets and regions do you need to take care of ten nodes?

MvdV> Look at it from a rational POV, discard all non technical arguments an
MvdV> the only logical answer to that question is: One.

Z6 took things down in the past year or so from 6 regions to 3.  The remaining
3 all have nodes in them. If we demise a region again, it will be China.

MvdV> Sure, reorgenising will require a lot of social engineering. I think y
MvdV> have the technical AND the social skills to do that.

I do, but please, LISTEN? Its not all that simple.  Its not all that black and
white.


 > If (and only after approval by all ZC's) the new makenl can be
 > used to untie pvt and -UnPublished-, you'll see a radically
 > different Z6 segment with no 000- numbers and no more bogus
 > phone entries.

MvdV> That would be a good thing, but I still say that ION hosts should be a
MvdV> for the time being. I would support all ZC's allowing the new makenl s
MvdV> that we are prepaired for when the time comes. With the vast majority
MvdV> of the nodes still depending on POTS, I say that time has not come yet

Out here, it is past time.  I agree with POTS, and am a POTS node right now,
but Z6 needs other answers than 'have to have POTS'.

 > I can 'display' more than I can quote.  I can see cyrillics
 > and the umlaut fine,

MvdV> At the same time in one and the same message?

Yes.

                                       xxcarol

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