Text 292, 110 rader
Skriven 2005-05-13 11:16:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
    Kommentar till text 283 av Carol Shenkenberger (6:757/1)
Ärende: Chinese in FidoNet
==========================
Hello Carol,

[ Chinese echos ]

 >> Nope.  Just have notes about them (never said other mind you
 >> about them).

MvdV>> So in fact we do not really know if they actually exist.

 > No, we know in fact that they *used* to exist, but that they
 > probably do not anymore exist.

"We" do not know that. For /me/ it is only second level hearsay. For me that is
not enough to throw it into the "known as fact" box. I'll give it to you that
at one time they probably existed though.

 >> It does

MvdV>> Yes, it seems so: Pinyin.

 > Probably the name for it since you've looked it up.

After Jan Vermeulen gave me the pointer.

 > I just know it exists as I see it in various places in Asia, such
 > as Singapore and Hong Kong.  You also see it in some parts of
 > Thailand.  Bits-n-pieces in lots of places.

 >> although I cant read it because I cant read chinese
 >> language. I see it out here in Asia though.

If you can't read it, how do you know it is Pinyin? How do you know that what
you see in Thailand isn;t transcripted Thai?

MvdV>> "Asia" is a big place. What you see in Sasebo most likely is not Pinyi
MvdV>> but Latinised Japanese. Foir Pinyin you need to go to a place where th

 > Grin, I'm not talking about Sasebo.  I imagine though that is
 > is confusing!  I travel so *much* compared to most of us in
 > Fidonet (not more than anyone else mind you, but I'd be in the
 > top 10% easily for regular travel).

Easy if you spend more than 1/3 of you time on a ship. :-)


 >> But then, USA 'phonetics' do not match.

MvdV>> USA phonetics do not match Dutch phonetics either. Nor German or Frenc
MvdV>> for that matter. Phonetics seldom match across the language barrier.

 > Heck, they dont match within a language often enough if the
 > language is spread about a goodly (goodlie) distance!

That too is true...

MvdV>> Yet in the song about Route 66, it is definitely pronounced as "R OOO
MvdV>> T" (Which, spelled like that btw would in Dutch would be pronounced wi
MvdV>> an 'O' as in "row, row row the boat ashore".

 > My own area uses the 'ow' so it would be 'r-oww-t' (ow as in
 > ouch sound you make when you smash your finger by accident
 > with a hammer).

Actually sounds like that also vary from place to place and culture to culture.
Asl people to imitate the sound of a cat and people from various language
groups will come up with /different/ sounds and different transciptions of
those sounds.

MvdV>> That problem exist is all languages, but English is known for its inco
MvdV>> in mapping spelling to pronounciation. try explaining to a non native
MvdV>> speaker why the "ng" us "Singer" is pronounced different than the "ng"
MvdV>> in "Ginger". or rather why they are spelled the same while they are pr
MvdV>> different.

 > Umm, one is where a syllable separates the word, the other is
 > one syllable in that part?

Eh? That doesn't compute....

 > In my own pronounciation, they are so close it's hard for me to
 > tell a difference betwixt'em.

Close? Hmmm... That's not how I hear it when it is pronounced by an Englishman.
They are /very/ different. And the English agree...

MvdV>> "Asia" is much too large and diverse to see it as a "group".

 > Not really.  It's as much of a 'group' as 'Europe' only it has
 > this odd section in India and the Middle East that doesnt
 > quite 'fit' (especially the middle east).

Hmmm... I am not so sure about that....

MvdV>> You do not need to know the language to be able to read the
MvdV>> street signs. Just compare what is on the map with what is
MvdV>> on the signs. That works in any language...

Under the condition that I made the assertion: that it is transcribed into
Roman lettering.

 > Grin, try it.

I often did. It is how I travelled Eastern Europe. I can't read or speak any of
the languages. But Sehsafprkimel on the sign is the same Sehsafprkimel as on
the map. So navigating is no problem.

Cheers, Michiel

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