Text 6887, 126 rader
Skriven 2013-12-09 09:53:37 av mark lewis (1:3634/12.71)
   Kommentar till text 6878 av Henri Derksen (2:280/1208)
Ärende: Dispute from ZCC.
=========================
On Mon, 09 Dec 2013, Henri Derksen wrote to Mark Lewis:

HD> That means there is a BBS too!
RW> Not really.
HD> Yes, almost ALLWAYS!
HD> If there is no BBS, the node should be listed with an MO flag.

ML> should be but they are not always listed as mail only...

 HD> That's why I used the words "almost" and "should".

point being that there is no requirement for a non-BBS system to fly the MO
flag... if that were the case, then practically every system in Z2 would be
flying MO and they are not, are they?

HD> Or the system is not well configurated, or the nodelist entry is 
HD> wrong.

ML> that depends on one's perspective(s)...

 HD> That's the wrong practise.
 HD> FTSC documents and NodeList epilogue are very clear about this
 HD> item. 

where is the enforcement division? what are they doing?

ML> not everyone in fidonet thinks the same way ;)

 HD> Not listing a MO flag, and rejecting BBScallers is Annoying
 HD> Behavior.

how can it be policy defined 'annoying behavoir' when that only applies to
members of fidonet? bbs callers are not members of fidonet... they are users of
the bbs and users of fidonet...

 HD> Because it costs POTS BBS-callers money for nothing; CONNECT, No 
 HD> Carrier...

then they should stop calling that system... they should also stop using the
nodelist as a bbs phonebook... especially since it is well known that places
like Zone 2 don't run bbses like may have been done in the past... they don't
run bbses because of the metered call times... this is why points are such a
big thing in Zone 2... points are mailer to mailer with no bbs involved at
all...

 HD> A BBScaller can ask a *C to correct the listing when needed. 

really? that is the bbs operator's job to ask his *c to fix his nodelist
entry... bbs callers do not have that right... bbs callers barely even know
what a nodelist is...

HD> No MO-Flag, there should be a BBS, and a mailer, both! period.
HD> MO flag, than BBS-users have no access, only mailers.

RW> The CM flag indicates that the node is in Continuous Mail mode.

HD> You are confused.
HD> That's CM flag is to indicate the node is 24 h online and always
HD> accept mail, also outside ZMH.

ML> true...

 HD> Not only that,
 HD> it has nothing to do with the absents of the MO flag I started
 HD> talking about, to prove that a Nodenumber is not always only the
 HD> SysOp behind the mails from that AKA,
 HD> but also could be one of the BBS-users ((Co-)SysOp inclusive). 

while that may be absolutely true, in the case you are trying to argue, bbs
callers are not allowed to participate... not as candidates or voters... the
main point being made is that the nodelist is used to determine who qualifies
to be a participant and that means the one person that is listed as the system
operator...

HD> First there were BBSes, then they were connected to exchange mail too.
HD> And later on many are Mail Only withouth a BBS, hence the MO-flag.
HD> The CM flag does not indicate there a BBS or not, i.e. irrelevant.
HD> The MO flag does wat it tells you, Mail Only, so No BBS.

ML> true for the most part...
ML> MO was also implemented when there were a lot of BBS callers using the
ML> nodelist to locate BBSes they wanted to call and visit...
ML> adding the MO flag helped to indicate to them that there was
ML> no BBS available...

 HD> I knew.

i'm sure...

ML> however, it didn't stop all callers...

 HD> Indeed, and then there came the private nodes ;-).
 HD> I.e. the Private keyword plus "Unplublished" in the phone field.
 HD> That combination already started very many discussions,
 HD> but that is another (not finished) thread, MakeNL comes to mind
 HD> ;-). 

hahaha...

ML> plus MO doesn't mean that there is not a BBS, either...
ML> perhaps it is a private BBS that is not advertised to the public? ;)

 HD> I Agree.
 HD> But my main argument was the opposit, i.e.
 HD> No MO-flag listed, then there must be a BBS besides the mailer,
 HD> otherwise the *C should place a MO flag.
 HD> So when no BBS is available, the MO flag is mandatory.

well, the 'thing' is supposedly ended now... so no need to try to argue either
side any more...

ML> Not only is the Universe stranger than we think,
ML> it is stranger than we can think. - Werner Heisenberg

 HD> Not only that, also FidoNet does have many strange birds flying
 HD> around ;-). 

'strange' doesn't even begine to cover it in some cases ;)

)\/(ark

Not only is the Universe stranger than we think, it is stranger than we can
think. - Werner Heisenberg

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 * Origin:  (1:3634/12.71)