Text 1133, 147 rader
Skriven 2008-01-05 20:13:56 av Ross Cassell (1:123/456)
   Kommentar till text 1131 av Daniel Prather (170.holysmok)
Ärende: Big stink in Green Bay
==============================
Hello Daniel!

05 Jan 08 18:58, you wrote to me:


 >> Notice how "make no law establishing... or prohibiting"
 >>
 >> "make no law"..
 >>
 >> Its in the details.
 >>
 >> It doesnt say separate or separation.

 DP> Congress makes laws, the executive branch enforces them, and the
 DP> judiciary interprets/reviews them when necessary.  Since all of those
 DP> pieces encompass "government", and the Constitution forbids the
 DP> creation of religious laws, it would seem the rest is moot.  To me,
 DP> that means religion is not to be part of government.

Doesnt mean non-existent words in the constitution are in force.

 >> If it did, it would be illegal for Congress to have Chaplains or
 >> the symbolism of religion that adorns the USSC.

 DP> I think having a chaplain there is up to the elected officials of
 DP> Congress. The chaplain is there for their own usage, but not that of
 DP> the government itself.  However, I don't think the government should
 DP> pay for a chaplain unless it's willing to pay for any "religious"
 DP> representative one or more Congresspersons want there.

They have had Chaplains forever and a day.

Since 1789.

From http://chaplain.house.gov

Article I, Section 2 of the Constitution states: "The House of Representatives
shall chuse their Speaker and other Officers."

The election of the Rev. William Linn as Chaplain of the House on May 1, 1789,
continued the tradition established by the Continental Congresses of each day's
proceedings opening with a prayer by a chaplain. The early chaplains alternated
duties with their Senate counterparts on a weekly basis. The two conducted
Sunday services for the Washington community in the House Chamber every other
week.

Since the election of Rev. Linn in 1789, the House has been served by chaplains
of various religious denominations, including Baptist (7), Christian (1),
Congregationalist (2), Disciples of Christ (1), Episcopalian (4), Lutheran (1),
Methodist (16), Presbyterian (15), Roman Catholic (1), Unitarian (2), and
Universalist (1).

In addition to opening proceedings with prayer, the Chaplain provides pastoral
counseling to the House community, coordinates the scheduling of guest
chaplains, and arranges memorial services for the House and its staff. In the
past, Chaplains have performed marriage and funeral ceremonies for House
members.

In 2005, The Chaplain was paid a salary of 40k a year.

You got a long road to how to get this shit changed...

 DP> I think symbolism is wrong because it implies impartiality.

You meant partiality, yes?

 >> So as a non-believer myself, I am happy to be apathetic about it as
 >> opposed to being a subscriber to the fear mongering you and Ceppa
 >> subscribe to.

 DP> I know you don't care about it, and it's not an issue to you.

Its an issue for me, but its not as big of one, because I know people like
yourself are suffering from irrational fear.

I dont see it as a federal issue, I see more of it on the state and local
levels, and since our blue laws have begun to dissolve, I have worried about it
less and less.

 DP> Apparently you're perfectly content to allow our government to
 DP> discriminate and encourage prejudice against people who aren't
 DP> necessarily in the mainstream.

Like when a Federal Court ordered the Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme
Court to take the monument of the 10 commandments down?

Notice how his defiance cost him his career?

Since I am technically on the same side as you in the "belief" dept, how am I
being oppressed?

 DP>   That's your opinion, and you do
 DP> whatever you want.  Those of us who see where the problems are will
 DP> talk about it and do what we can to stop it, with or without
 DP> your help.

The sky is falling... <TM> Chicken Little

 >> AFAIC, people like you and Dan represent a far greater danger to
 >> our society than any holy roller.

 DP> Yes, because we want government based in reality, as opposed to
 DP> fantasy.

As long as politicians have to spend thousands if not millions of dollars to
get elected or have to pander to specific demographics, our govt will never be
based on reality, dont blame this phenomena on religion.

Religion is just another demographic in this context as are people like you.

 >> You mean those whom dont want to redefine the definition of
 >> marriage???

 DP> Those who have any problem with two or more people being able to enter
 DP> into a legal contract with one another that requires the government to
 DP> treat them as "family".

This doesnt require the redefining of marriage.

Same sex couples can have their own designation, call them civil unions.

 >> Abortion should not like ordering fast food or used as a form of
 >> contraception.

 DP> No, it shouldn't be.  But, a woman has the right to exercise whatever
 DP> control necessary over her own body.  The government has no authority
 DP> whatsoever to restrict her.

But unfortunately abortion advocates often try to sell it as I described.

 >> Arent you glad your mother made the correct choice?

 DP> My mother wanted children.  Had she not wanted children, I wouldn't be
 DP> here, and I wouldn't care.  She made the CHOICE she wanted to, and
 DP> didn't have a bunch of right wing fundamentalist male chauvanists make
 DP> the decision for her.

Not every opponent of abortion comes from the right, but you knew that.


==
Ross
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