Text 370, 170 rader
Skriven 2006-11-16 23:32:12 av JOHNJWILSON (1:123/140)
     Kommentar till en text av MATT CLARK
Ärende: GOD AND 'RATIONALITY'
=============================
-> 
-> -> ->  If there is no God, then right and wrong are only an opinion.
->  
-> -> Societal.
-> -> 
-> -> My grandfather was an atheist. The most moral man I have ever met.
-> -> He had definate opinions (beliefs) in right and wrong.
-> 
-> God's influence pervades us all, believer or non believer.

Religious belief affect us all and has since the dawn of consciousness.

There's been a big bucketful of God's before Moses...

Many _exclusive_ God's...

First thing  many Gods say when first communicating to humans
is their superiority to all Others...

I think perhaps (My feet are not in concrete on this) that
a lot of the begining of religion, is proto-scientific, i.e.,
it is perhaps the earliest attempt to describe the Universe and How It
Works.
Nuthin' wrong with that...and I'm certainlt not denying a whole
bix box-full of truth for those who seek to be free.

  Did you ever 
-> ask yourself 'what' inner entity endowed your grandfather with a sense
of 
-> right and wrong?

No. I will now though. My first thought was 'family tradition.
"Honesty is the best policy" was a fundiment of his life.
He had a reputation for honesty - durring the depression, when FDR closed
the banks...local businessmen came with their money to HIM. (!)
No church goers in my family. But when a housekeeper wanted to take me to
church Grandfather was in cheerful agreement...
I went for a while...really enjoyed it. I was in grade five I think.
Began my varigated love for the Bible...read it (or about it) every day.
Lessee...68 years (!) Egads! Another reminder that I am an old
person! (I keep ignoring that :-)


 You can tell someone what is right and wrong but what 
-> makes a person believe it and 'want' to do what's right, as your 
-> grandfather did?

I would like to emulate him as much as I can.
I would like that some of that rubbed off in my and 
will in turn rub off on my offspring.
-> 
-> 
-> -> ..and (most importantly) He lived an upright life.
-> 
-> I salute your grandfather.

Thank you for bringing him to my memories attention.
A pleasent few minutes.
(The Chinses' ancestor worship...not a totally bad idea...:-)


-> 
->  
-> -> If religious could only take seriously what their founders taught!
-> 
-> Overall they do.

I wish I could believe that. 

I have always been  little puzzled...you can't tell Christians in a crowd,
or in public, or people who say they are...Jimmy Swaggart springs to mind.
Public Christians have a great thing going...forgiveness of sins! :-)



 We'll let the atheists around here try to drag them down...

Actually it's a search for truth. A deniel of (mainly) Christiannity
because the actually have read what Jesus is said to have tought as
recorded in the New Testament and are overwhelmed by how little difference
it makes in people lives.

Presnt company exclused. :-)

-> to their level by digging up the exceptions...

Exceptions are to be well noted, I believe -- when they are not
there is even a greater danger to Christendom than even ol' cynical me
thinks there now is. :-|


people who don't really 
-> believe in their religion faith. ie.McVeigh. 
->
I have no opinion. I think deranged. Criminal. Punished.
The aspect of religion doesn't resonate with me.  
->  
==================================
-> 
-> ...As a man sometimes I fall from love when I 
-> am provoked, attacked, etc

Hell, so did Paul :-}

...but water always finds its own level and in
-> spite of all the wrong that people do I still feel compassion for them.
->
Muslims included?
Some think of themselves as the Christian Martyrs did... 
Both, I think erred. (How's THAT for a sweeping judgment?)
(I may have to eat that...) :-)

 

-> -> -> there is no rational reason to be good?

Moral, ethical, reasonable, _Spiritual_ sure. Rational? That
might have to do with effective, good and bad...
My take on evil (Theodesy


  No rational reason to fight
-> -> -> evil?  Thanks for that insight.  Keep talking Mr. 'god dan'.
-> -> ->
-> -> Evil is a human invention to explain sorrow, pain, and Why
-> -> Things Go Wrong.
-> 
-> That might be true if we invented the things that go wrong.

Man is the Things go Wrong inventor.

AND evil...but this is too long to get into Theodesy...
 
 
-> -> The Universe is neither good nor 'evil'
-> 
-> Well, good and bad things do happen so let's just say your claim is 
-> quite debateable.
->
Good and bad things do happen. and I look forward to further
discussion/debate.... 
->  
-> ->   
-> -> -> 
-> -> -> There must be a reason because here we are...
-> -> 
-> -> An assumption I toy with ...a lot!

-> 
-> Me too.  Life is still a complete mystery..yet here we have atheists who 
-> seem to know for sure that there is no God and that life just rose up 
-> out of the dirt and took on intelligent forms all by itself.

Well sure! Actually the Great Nudge came from
the Universe...which is alive :-)

They seem to 
-> have all the intellectual and spiritual dynamics of a fence post.
-> Stuck in the mud.

Searching for adequate explanations is never a bad thing. 
You ain't a gonna convince 'em with scorn...<{-:0

Cheers!




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