Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16069
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22090
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   0/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT
  0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3207
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13260
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS
  0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX
  0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32712
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2053
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33888
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24099
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4393
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13598
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
Möte IC, 2851 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa
Text 1080, 165 rader
Skriven 2006-05-10 14:38:00 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 1053 av Philip Lozier (1:267/169)
Ärende: none
============
Hello Philip.

10 May 06 01:31, you wrote to me:

 MvdV>> Seems to me you pay quit a lot on phone service. My monthly
 MvdV>> bill for the fixed phone averages some EUR 15,-

 PL> I used to have 4 phones for business use, with telemarketers on them
 PL> from 5pm to 9pm, another for the BBS, and used any of the four other
 PL> (the telemarketing ones, not another additional 4) lines for my
 PL> personal voice call needs.  You wouldn't have wanted to see the bills
 PL> back then (1994 to around late 1999 or early 2000).

No special deal for high volume users?

 PL>   All located in my residence, with a part of the home seperated as
 PL> the office rooms. Then it seem justified and I "played the system" and
 PL> managed to have them all at "home" rates rather than the per call
 PL> business rates (at that time even incoming *biz* calls were metered).

That's another thing we do not have. This difference between home and business
lines. A line is a line here and everyone pays the same. But for big firms with
many lines, they have special deals.

It appears to ma however that if you used these lines for telemarketing you
should have had them registred as business lines....

 PL> Even at "home" rates it would make you gag. Makes *ME* gag now seeing
 PL> that I could do the same thing again at much cheaper rates if the
 PL> telemarketing laws didn't change.  ( I didn't scam by telemarketing...
 PL> I offered chimney cleaning and repair services, and even had MANY
 PL> people who said they "usually hang up on telemarketers",

Nothing personal, but I consider telemarketers a pest. I never buy from them, I
would not even if they offered something I actually wanted. They jhave the
nasty habit of calling me when I am enjoying my dinner. Caller ID is a
blessing. These guys seldom sent a caller ID and so I mercileslY divert all
calls between 6 and 8 pm without caller ID  to the answering machine. When they
catch me by surprise I say I am not interested and hang up on them.

 PL> buy the service by phone because they "needed" it, and hadn't thought
 PL> about it in a long time).

Does not work for me. I would still buy elswhere just out of principle.

 PL> Now it would be illegal for me to have people blanket an area in that
 PL> manner, despite the fact they would buy the service, becasue too many
 PL> jackasses scammed and screwed it up for the legitimate people.

Over here e-mail and sms spam is outlawed. Companies may not send unsollicited
e-mail to private persons. They may only send e-mail if they have already
established a client relation with that person. And then there must be an opt
out button.

Unfortunately this does not extend to telemarketing over the telephone. Yet..

 PL> Anyway...

 MvdV>> Just as good or as bad as any other VOIP setup I gather from
 MvdV>> the people who tried it. As with any VOIP, your milage may
 MvdV>> vary.

 PL>>>  wouldn;t inbound be a problem?  Can't always be in a hotspot.

 MvdV>> Yes, that may be a problem when one is moving around.

 PL> That is why people won;t leave to laptops and hotspots for that
 PL> particular need.

Not all of them but many may. Given the really outrages international roaming
fees, I think many people would spent some time looking for a hot spot. One can
alwyas leeave the cell on for incoming emergencies...

 PL>>>>> Many of the providers have been offering free "walkie-talkie"
 PL>>>>> services for people on their network... free calls in essence
 PL>>>>> for whoever is on either end, no matter how far away they are.

 MvdV>>>> I bet these customers pay a monthly fee for that....

 PL>>> Only the normal cell phone monthly charge,

 MvdV>> And that "normal" charge would be how much?

 PL> As low as around 39 bux a month ... with low actual "phone time"

Wow! That is not what *I* call low...

 PL> minutes, but still absolutely unlimited walkie-talkie usage.

Even so. They pay in a month what I pay on calls in a year....

 MvdV>> Over here it is different. Contracts are for those who make
 MvdV>> lots of calls and they spend more than the average prepay user.

 PL> Gas pumps... credit card and debit checking people get charged
 PL> slightly less at the pump, at least in my area.

 PL> Many stores have "with your good credit" discounts.

 PL> Other "offers" include "extra items" with your purchase if you use a
 PL> credit card.

Credit cards are not popular here. What we have is a system of bank cards. You
swipe the card thorugh the reader enter the PIN and the amount is directly
transfered from your bank account to that of the vendor. My estimate is that
over 80% of transactions aboive EUR 10 are handled this way.

 PL> Other services flat out DENY you if you don't use a credit or debit
 PL> account.

That would be unheard of here and illegal as well. Cash is legal tender and
vendors are by law required to accept it.

 PL> Funny... (as you put it on the other matter)... in a society that was
 PL> based on CASH, you are discriminated against for USING cash.

Odd indeed...

 MvdV>> Over here the cell company would get nothing if it is a
 MvdV>> prepaid. My estimate is that 80% of all cell phones here are
 MvdV>> prepaid.

 PL> Things here are done differently with different providers as far as
 PL> pre-paid goes here. In your country, is it wide spread that on a
 PL> pre-paid account your bought minutes are only good for 30 days, or do
 PL> they roll-over?

Credit used to expire after six month and then roll over when you recharge, But
now it does not expire anymore. it is valid forever. But you must use it
occasioanally. If you do not use the phone at all for six month, the number
lapses. A free call to query the balance will do.

 PL>   A few companies (here) have roll-over for pre-paid
 PL> after you spend a certain ammount, but until you spend that ammount
 PL> you're only good for 30 days on any given minute buy.  Others stick by
 PL> the 30 day only on pre-paid.  In that scenario of rewarding you with
 PL> roll-over for an extended period of time after spending a certain
 PL> amount, the company has already determined that you -will- use minutes
 PL> up and they will make money off of you.

Hmmm.. that doesn't soujd very attractive. For the customer.

 PL>   In the event that minutes are only good for 30 days from purchase,
 PL> well, then there's you're monthly fee on pre-paid.

Hmmm.... They would not get away with that here. I think there even was a court
ruling on it: you can't let credit simply expire. if they expire you must give
te user a refund on unused credit...

 PL> Trust me... they have that business plan down here.  They CAN'T *LOSE*
 PL> money here, no matter pre-paid or credit/debit with a contract, even
 PL> if they offered free inbound.  The landline companies never did, and
 PL> afterall it's the same type of service but different transport method.

Yes, I see.

Well, we have these outrageous international roaming fees, but other than that,
I think I am pretty well off with my cell phone deal. As long as I stay in The
Netherlands I *only* pay for outgoing calls and there is no minimum amount to
spend.

Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20060315
 * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)