Text 1513, 151 rader
Skriven 2006-05-30 11:56:02 av Philip Lozier (1:267/169)
   Kommentar till text 1502 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Immediate Action Require
================================
 MvdV>>> No, he is supposed to have read P4 before he is issued the node
 MvdV>>> number. There is nothing stopping a prospective sysop from
 MvdV>>> applying without ever having heard of P4.

 PL>> Except not follwing the right proceedure.

 MvdV> You can deny the node number if he does not follow procedure. But
 MvdV> you can not stop him from filing an application anyway before
 MvdV> reading P4.

I can't stop somebody from filing it, but I sure can dismiss it out of hand,
without further comment if I so choose, if it is not acknowleded that P4 was
read and understood.

If you want to be a node in FidoNet, then know what you're getting into...
otherwise, call a Fidonet BBS and use their services.  Simple.

 MvdV> For the simple reason that you do no know about him
 MvdV> before he succesfully contacted you in some way. If he attempts to
 MvdV> contact you by trying to send a netmail to net/9999 an fails, you
 MvdV> will never even know about his existance.

Not my fault... if you want to be a "node", rather than a user, educate
yourself if you're serious about it.  As it was, I see it applicable today,
reason being that it's easy to "become" a node, but in an environment of lax
*C's if you only stayed two weeks your listing might still last for years.  I
have examples of that outside my net, recently too for re-applying nodes in the
region who were nodes YEARS ago, haven't been active in YEARS, and I even had
to go to turboblast node to get an old listing removed so I could list the guy
here.

Keep in mind, IMO, the number of nodes are not important.... the "userbase" is.
Even 100 nodes left, after all is said and done, who actively pursue and
support a userbase are of better "quality" as FidoNet nodes who support the
idea than if we had 10,000 nodes who view FidoNet node membership as nothing
more than access to a different kind of newsgroup for their own personal
consumption.

Give me "50" serious BBS SysOps who want to apply to that concept, and I'll
reface Fidonet... effectively.

 MvdV>>> Anyway, if the applicant *has* read P4, the net/9999 entry in
 MvdV>>> the nodelist has no added value.

If you read with comprehension of the English language, it does.

 PL>> Except to indicate the preference of the net in the case of new node
 PL>> applicants.

 MvdV> What added value is there to advertising a preference?

The value of having an educated new node who wasn't doing it on a whim just
because they installed Sych and learned about it that way, who may
stick around... for one.

Ever since the 70's, and my CB days, I have been fascinated bt HAM radio...
should I just be a HAM because I want to, or will I have to do my homework to
achieve my liscense? Buying equipment is easy enough... using it legally is
another, wouldn't you agree?

 MvdV> What added
 MvdV> value is there to *having* a preference in the first place?

The same value as you, as a HAM, might see when you consider somebody putting
up a tower and broadcasting who ignores the "preferences" and protocols...
never mind the idea of a liscense.

 MvdV> Are
 MvdV> yiou going to deny the node number if he does not folow the
 MvdV> preferred method?

Yes, and no.

I have been contacted by MANY (my helpul reputation and all) who were
looking for Fidonet access, by many different means.  I have had to learn
software I never used, nor would think of using, based on what these people
wanted to do.  With them, at least I knew they were "serious" by the effort
they were putting in.  Only TWO have ever been listed in my local net, and the
others I refered to their proper places... rest assured that when they applied
to their own locals, it was done by netmail, and properly.  Some may, or may
not, even be seeing this message... I don't know anymore.  I have been
responsible for bringing many a node into FiodNet, yet while being helpful, I
was also "proper" in what I did... even if it was a burden on them.  At least I
new they were serious in their efforts, and even though a PITA to them at the
time, they were very thankful for the results and not being "blind" nodes.

As to those who would act like they already knew, file wrong, and wonder why,
and "don't need" help... they get dismissed like my morning
breakfast as I'm sitting on the pot at 11pm. I can't take them seriously.


 MvdV> No of course not. a prospective sysop either
 MvdV> succesfully makes contact or he doesn't. if he succesfully makes
 MvdV> contact he gets guided through the process no matter *how* the
 MvdV> first contact was made.


First conatct is only the first step.  Some don't want to be "guided" but
expect you to do everyhing for them.  BYE-BYE to them. They're not worthy of
being nodes, and should be using bluewave or something.  I have never balked at
"helping", but my method of helping requires some "learning" on their part, and
IMO, rightfuly so.

 MvdV> If his attempts to make contact fail, you will never know he even
 MvdV> existed...

Then he hasn't done his homework, and is not ready yet to be a "node".

 PL>> Realisticly, somebody isn;t going to pick up a nodelist one day and
 PL>> say "I wanna be in that so I'm gonna join".  They will have had some
 PL>> sort of exposure to Fidonet, and will most certainly ask questions of
 PL>> somebody who -is- in the nodelist.  It doesn't at all seem likely that
 PL>> somebody would be attempting to send a new node application without
 PL>> some prior knowledge of what the proceedures are.

 MvdV> Indeed. A prospective sysop will most likely have some prior
 MvdV> knowledge.

Cange prospective SysOp to prospective NODE, and I agree.

 MvdV> here in Europe that prior knowledge most likely will be
 MvdV> that he is active as a point.

A concept I am already seriously considering for here, unless the prospective
node has a verifiable knowledge of what he/she is doing.


 MvdV> Almost all knew nodes started out as a point. He will *not* use the
 MvdV> net/9999 number when he applies for a node number.

Under those circumstance, no... the point wouldn't, or shouldn't, but request
an upgrade.  Having "proven" themselves, it should be automatic.  Unless of
course, they were providing no useful benefit to FidoNet as a whole.  Single
user systems, IMO only, SHOULD be points.

 MvdV> Someone could have a fair idea of what FidoNet is, even be a user,
 MvdV> but not have a clue where to start looking anyway. Especially if he
 MvdV> does not have Google capability. He just *may* stumble on a
 MvdV> nodelist and think the net/9999 number is the clue.

Then that person could be accused of having poor communication skills, in a
communication based network.  If they're that dumb to not "ask", then we really
don't need them anyway... they'll be of no value.  Let those types stick to
being users.

There ya have it,

Phil

--- FMail/Win32 1.60
 * Origin: ==<<FLaSHBaCK-BBS>>== part of the NYCap/Adirondack Netwo (1:267/169)