Text 1562, 116 rader
Skriven 2006-06-02 20:29:34 av Peter Knapper (3:772/1.0)
   Kommentar till text 1551 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
Ärende: Vlist's conjecture
==========================
Hi Michiel,

 ... Continued ...

 MvdV>>> We have adapted but not without some problems.
 MvdV>>> Obviously it is unreasonable to demand that the host
 MvdV>>> makes all the calls to deliver the mail.

 PK>> But you can't say that, because you are just invalidating your
 PK>> previous statement on the issue.

 MvdV> Well I just said it didn't I? What previous statement did I invalidate?

In a previous breath you were saying that the NC should place all calls to
deliver mail to all Nodes. and now its "Obviously it is unreasonable...".
Do you not wonder why people have a hard time understandng what you REALLY
mean?


 MvdV>> That would put *all* of the coast on one person. So we went by
 MvdV>> the rule: the leaf nodes have to call their host or hub at regular
 MvdV>> intervals to pick up mail. Prefereably every day, but once a week
 MvdV>> at minimum.

 PK>> Exactly. Logic prevails...

 MvdV> At the cost of violating P4.

*** Groan *** Make up your mind about this please... You previously said that
P4 did not say HOW it was to be done, that it was left open (and was therefore
a weakness in Policy), and yet now you are saying that it is violating P4.


 MvdV>>> There *have* been a few cases here in The Netherlands
 MvdV>>> were sysops refused to comply. Nodes *have* been
 MvdV>>> removed from the nodelist for not picking up mail for
 MvdV>>> an extended period of time. (A couple of month).

 PK>> And rightly so.

 MvdV> Yoy think so? 

Absolutely.

 MvdV> Apparently some *C's higher up in the 
 MvdV> chain disagreed with you as some of the smarter sysops 
 MvdV> had their excommunication overruled in an appeal. 

Here, the local NC would insist that a Node collect his waiting mail, and if he
did not, then after about 4 weeks of prompting, if it was still uncollected, he
would be removed from the Nodelist. I am not aware of anyone in this Net ever
complaining about this method.


 PK>> No... not free... the cost is paid for access to the service, not the
 PK>> use of it.

 MvdV> Why do I have to write every word as if it is to be read 
 MvdV> by lawyers in a court of law. 

Because that is EXACTLY how I read the arguments that YOU write! Black and
White, Top and Bottom, Up and Down. 


 PK>> All of the points you "desire"

 MvdV> Desire? What makes you think it is what I desire? I do 
 MvdV> not desire any of the above. If I had my desires P4 would 
 MvdV> never have been adopted.

Then why are you still here? No... I can answer that one... because your
desires are not strong enough to allow you to leave. That then suggests to me
that you MUST see some good in P4.


 PK>> The beauty of P4 is that it does not tie things down too far,

 MvdV> Seven year cost share war resulting form geonet restrictions.....

That was just a "local" issue and section 1.2.3 covers it well, "Networks
coordinate their mail activity to decrease cost". So your "seven year cost
share war" was in fact mandated by P4!.......;-)


 PK>> it gives Fidonet Members the chance to work things out themselves,

 MvdV> Well they haven't been very successful at that, given 
 MvdV> that fidonet's alias is fight'onet...

So blame the members, not Fidonet or P4.


 PK>> IE it lets them work together in a co=operative spirit. Your approach
 PK>> is to build walls and stop/go signs,

 MvdV> *My* approach? He, I didn't write P4! I am merely sharing 
 MvdV> my ideas on what its implications are.

From that perspective, I'm glad its only 1 against the rest of
Fidonet........;-)


 PK> but sorry, that simply wont work in a co-operative environment.

Indeed, it does not work very well. But do not blame it on me, blame it on 
the writers of P4. 

Again you are trying to pass the buck back on Policy, because none of your
issues seem to originate from P4 itself, only the (in)ability of Sysops to
understand what it is saying...

Cheers............pk.


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