Text 2141, 168 rader
Skriven 2006-07-14 23:44:05 av Michiel van der Vlist (2:280/5555)
   Kommentar till text 2126 av Vladimir Donskoy (2:5020/2992)
Ärende: Z7 again
================
Hello Vladimir.

14 Jul 06 15:43, you wrote to me:

 VD>>> Result : the network have near 540 nodes, and I receive 150
 VD>>> voices. This is high percent :-) !

 MV>> That indeed is very good. 28%.

 MV>> Still not as good as real life elections. They are usually around
 MV>> 60% here...

 VD> Useally election (and other votings) in FIDO have only 15-20%.

It varies from time to time and from place to place. As I said, 28% is very
good. Yet one can not help wondering why in real life the percentage is
significantly higher....

 MV>> In our refion (28), in 1997, when the decline was steepest, dead
 MV>> wood estimaes were around 30%.

 VD> I want speak about compare this (or other votings) to Z7 referendum
 VD> result - and decide of ZCC about it is not correct, quorum on it is
 VD> real and statement state on it - is the law. So they answer is
 VD> non-right, and must be ignore.

That is not how it works. The ZCC is the highest authority in FidoNet and they
have rejected the Z7 proposal. You may not like that and of course you natural
reaction is to say that they were wrong, but that is not going to do any good.
I did not like it either when they ruled against me, and my reaction also was
that they were wrong. But the fact is that that is where the buck stops. You
shall just have to learn to live with it.

 VD>>> Yes, but Ward is not working on it...

 MV>> Nobody indicated doing something about ZMH was an acceptable
 MV>> compromise, all the dissidents kept on screaming they wantd a
 MV>> zone 7 instead. Besides, Ward can not do that on his own.
 MV>> Changing ZMH needs world wide consensus. And there is no
 MV>> consensus.

 VD> Oh, Mike, when you understand that we is not "dissidents",

But you are...

 VD> we is a real FIDO sysops and want to continue of existance of the
 VD> FIDO!

So do I. Why do you think I am still here after all these years? I like FidoNet
and I would like it to go on for many more years.

But IMHSHO the best way to achieve that is to just hang on and keep writing. As
I am doing....

 MV>>>> Plus of course that there is always the alternative of running
 MV>>>> the system as a point if one is unable or unwilling to observe
 MV>>>> ZMH.

 VD>>> Point have no rights,

 MV>> Points can send and receive mail. That is all that really
 MV>> matters.

 VD> This is all points rights, they can't resolve all other problems.

The only real problem of FidoNet is lack of participants. What we need are
people who write messages. Points can do that just as well as sysops.

 VD> And they can't send mail (only through boss),

Points can crash messages to systems that ae on-line.

 VD> and they can't receive mail (only through boss).

Not so. Points *can* be on-line for receiving message directly without having
it routed through their boss. Try sending a message directly to 2:280/100.55.

There is not much of an advantage for a point to be on-line for receiving
messages directly, but it *can* be done...

 VD> They restrict establish connections, and restrict echoes set which
 VD> have they boss.

A point is not restricted to one boss. He can have as many bosses as his mailer
will allow him to have akas. He can get his echomail anywhere he wants just
like a node. In fact a point has *more* freedom as he is not bond by geo
restrictions imposed by P4.

 VD>  So: point and sysop - different levels and status.

Yep. A point is free form ZMH restrictions....

 VD>>> he have no response even for his traffic! So - sysop not like
 VD>>> down his status to point...

 MV>> And so we are back to "status" again...

 VD> Only if they agree with ZMH? No, it is not corect way!

Your opinion....

 VD> I can see large number of e-mail-only nodes, it is the sysops who not
 VD> want to be points and who find "back-way" for round of ZMH.

E-mail only nodes should never have been allowed. They have the reachability of
points and hence *should* be points.

 MV>>>> You lost credibility on that arguments with your z6 dual
 MV>>>> listing stunt.

 VD>>> Our RC have dual listing too

 MV>> Not any more.

 VD> And Anatoly Tung, who real live in Moscow and control his node by
 VD> Internet. His second node is 2:5020/388.

Which is wrong. And BTW, where *is* Anatoly? AFAIK he is certified ghost.

 VD> More is inusefull - we have a RC, a NC and a sysop... This is enought
 VD> for begin of Region transfer, if this resolution is accept.

But it was rejected. Live wih it.

 VD>>> I have same authority at our region too (I was NC 2:5055 for 2
 VD>>> times and I still NEC of this now, if speak about official
 VD>>> "hats")...

 MV>> Two plus two still does not equal five, no matter how many hats
 MV>> of athority you put on...

 VD> I speak about not "many hats" but about "many sysops which support
 VD> us".

Two plus two still does not equal five no matter how many support that
theory...

 MV>>>> Anyway, it is good to see you are still here. Some evil tongues
 MV>>>> claimed you all had left because you did not get your chocolate
 MV>>>> cake. Seems they were once more trying to fabricate facts....

 VD>>> What?! I never speak about want to left FIDO!

 MV>> Not you, some guys in Z1 that wanted to sow disension claim that
 MV>> 100 sysops in R50 have left because they did not get what they
 MV>> wanted. Good to see you contradict that.

 VD> Is is the false, of course.

Thank you for confirming that.

 VD> Nobody left FIDO on this sample reason,

It never is a simple reason.

 MV>> Keep up the good work.

 VD> I try :-) !

We all do, don't we?


Cheers,

Michiel

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