Text 1611, 228 rader
Skriven 2004-10-12 00:54:00 av Chip Hearn (1:3613/52)
     Kommentar till en text av Maurice Kinal (1:153/401.1)
Ärende: Re: Getting grubby
==========================
-=> Maurice Kinal scribbled to Chip Hearn <=-

 MK> @MSGID: <416AE6B0.9778.linux@kia.zapto.org>
 MK> Hey Chip!

 MK> Oct 10 23:56 04, Chip Hearn wrote to Maurice Kinal:

 CH> Ok...  Video, Video Editing, Sound... Sound recording, Sound
 CH> editing...

 MK> The sound stuff isn't an issue.  Video?  What for?  Unless you're a
 MK> commericial operation or pirating DVDs then it isn't an issue.  As to
 MK> commericial, Unix has taken care of that issue many, many years ago.
 MK> Windows apps can't possibly compete there.  Pirating?  Go for it.  Much
 MK> of that is as crappy as the OS that pirated it in the first place.
 MK> Pure garbage.

Well, I'm not a "Pirate" as you seem to think, I'm also not a
Commercial operation, but I do video editing. Some of my clients are
Lawyers and they take video depositions, and need to be able to edit the
depositions before the deposition is submitted into evidence in court.
Because of my knowledge in this area, and being a musician, I also do
video's for local bands and such.  Of course, I could use MAC which is
better adapted to video than either Linux or Windows.  But, for the
price... Windows is alot cheaper in all areas.  Yea, there are Linux
applications, but, they are not free, nor cheap. Both of which Windows
applications are.

 CH> The ability to use todays web editing/design programs/tools...

 MK> Who cares?  Most of that is out of sync anyhow.  If I had a dollar for
 MK> every broken site I'd be richer then Bill.

Only to you are they "Broken".  To me, they are faster loading, faster
drawing.  

 CH> The level of Accounting software.

 MK> Right.  Some more broken software.  Besides I am not an accountant.
 MK> Are you?

I'm not an accountant, but I'm a small business owner and I have to do
my own accounting.  GNU Cash, which is the only software currently
available on the same level as say Quickbooks or Quicken, is sorely
lacking.  

 CH> I'm
 CH> in the business.  I work on computers, Linux, Windows, etc...  I am a
 CH> musician, and I record music.  I also do some Video recording for
 CH> Music
 CH> videos...

 MK> With Windows?  How much did the software cost?  What equipment are you
 MK> using? How much did that cost?

I currenly use the Pinnacle hardware/software, which works quite well,
and is very easy to use.  Its also not very expensive in the realm that
its intended.

 CH> Linux's limitation in hardware compatability is its
 CH> current
 CH> downfall.

 MK> Which hardware?  Do you mean the regular crap they sell at most
 MK> computer shops etc.?  Again, who cares?  If that is the case the OS
 MK> isn't the only problem and i you think it is good enough for a
 MK> commercial operation then you are sadly mistaken.

Any recent hardware.  Why do you call it crap?  Its the latest and
greatest.  Its incredible hardware here lately...  Video cards with 256+
megs of memory...  how is that crap?  Audio cards that do 5.1 and more
speaker systems.  I have this feeling that you are one of those
monetarly lacking people that complain about the new hardware because
they can't afford it.  :)

 CH> There's no support for newer hardware.

 MK> Which is what exactly?

Read above.

 CH> advanced...  sorry, can't hold a candle to Windows.

 MK> You ARE sadly mistaken.

No, I'm mistaken, it hasn't lit a candle yet. :)

 MK>> I call bullshit.

 CH> So do I.

 MK> Whatever.  I could care less.  Do yourself a favour and stick with
 MK> Windows.

Here you are probably sadly mistaken.  I've been in the business for a
very long time.  I was running AIX back in the 70's, before this
upstart Linux ever showed its face.  When DOS came about, and personal
computers... I was dragged kicking and screaming into it and bitterly
complained all the way into Win 1,2 and 3. As soon as I could, jumped
ship to OS/2.  So, don't tell me to stick with Windows.  I'm not
spouting that Windows is the greatest... But you also won't find me
spouting that Linux is either.  This is my point.  The elitism that you
continually spout off as gospel.  Its not, and never will be.  I run
BSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, Debian Linux, Slackware, WindowsXP, NT2003, OS/2 3
Warp, OS/2 4 Warp.  I test out every version of Linux that comes out.
I test out ever verson of Windows that comes out.  I greatly dislike Red
Hat, but, its a personal opinion and I don't tell anyone "Not to use it"
because of my opinion.  

 CH> After many thousands of computers sold, built and installed, I have
 CH> YET CH> to see this occur.

 MK> Good for you.  I've seen it.  I even have proof here just in case it
 MK> ever matters, which it probably won't seeing as MS will probably kill
 MK> XP soon, just like they kill all their previous stuff.

Its not killing it, its called "End of Life".  It doesn't mean you can't
still run it.  Hell, if you have a Windows 3 systems running, good for
you.  Its similar to the Linux updates... You have Slackware 3.5, great,
you have Slackware 10, great.  You can update it or wipe your system out
and install fresh.  I see no difference.  Lets look at the GUI in
Slackware 3.5 as compared to the GUI in Slackware 10.  Quite a change.
So, if you were running Windows NT 4.0 Workstation, and upgraded to XP,
so what?  Its still NT.  You could have had NTFS file system even back
then.  Only difference is upgraded add-on programs.  IE 4.0 to IE 6.0.  

Then, lets look at the file systems... in Linux, there was EXT2, then 
EXT3 and now Riserfs.  In MS's world there was Fat16, Fat32, and NTFS.
As in Linux, if you compile your system to do so, you can read all
three in the newer versions.  Same thing in MS...  You going to tell me
that a Slackware 3.5 system is backwards compatiable?  Yea, right.  

 CH> Should have updated the
 CH> BIO's,
 CH> and then I wouldn't have had that problem.

 MK> As far as I am concerned the BIOS should be history.  Working towards
 MK> that end myself.

Think you might wanna run a google search on that, as its already been
done and failed to find a market and since died.

 CH> I'd like to know where you are getting this information.  I have
 CH> installed thousands of machines.

 MK> Please keep them there.  :-)

And why would I even consider sending them to you?  You wouldn't have
anywhere near the cash to cover it.  :)

 CH> The level of attacks today are starting to grow.  Those that run
 CH> Linux
 CH> should be very affraid, because they are now starting to delve into
 CH> the
 CH> Linux realm.

 MK> A tough haul for them if the sysadmin is on his/her toes.

Keep dreaming then.  As the threat grows, the usage grows, the exploits
found, the nightmare that MS is going through now will repeat in history
on the Linux side.

 CH> The problem with the Linux only people, such as
 CH> yourself,
 CH> is that  you think your safe, untouchable.

 MK> No.  I know better which is why I prefer and use Linux.  I have yet to
 MK> see a Windows box worth networking.  Keep them standalone and perhaps
 MK> they're good at labelmakers and the such, just like Macs, except Macs
 MK> make better labels. Pretty expensive labelmakers though.  Mind you with
 MK> a decent lazer printer perhaps you could use them to counterfeit money.
 MK>  Other then that they are toys.

Haha... oh... thats funny... Label makers...  

And how would you propose to get a client to agree to switch from a
Windows netowrk to a Linux network.  That includes all the workstations,
servers, etc...  The amount of time and effort needed to convert them
over just can't be justified.  Let alone the cost.  Even a new company,
that is just hiring employee's... they would still have to train their
employee's to use Linux.  Not an easy task.  

As for your "Not seeing a Windows box worth networking" statment.  What
a laugh... Your killing me.  Dude, where have you been?  In the stone
ages?  Come on... Its your elitism speaking again...  Take the blinders
off... over 90% of the world is using Windows networked.  So, how can
that many be wrong.  Are you proposing that your smarter than 90% of the
world?  haha... I think not.  

 CH> Read the above, because you should care.  It means alot.  Because
 CH> Linux CH> has moved up in the "Share" points.  This means there are more
people
 CH> using it which means there will be more exploits found.

 MK> Which is one reason why I will continue to customize and stay away from
 MK> the more popular distributions.

What distro do you use?  

 CH> I see a day when Linux will be on the same level as Windows <in use>,
 CH> and when that occurs, I think you will see a major problem in linux.

 MK> I agree.

 CH> Me, myself, I will continue to be on both sides.  I love my Linux...
 CH> not
 CH> because of the elitisum that you portray, but because its something I
 CH> enjoy to use.

 MK> Sounds good.  Enjoy!

I do, if you'll notice the tag line below.... Even my Notebook that I
use to read/reply to messages on my BBS is Linux.  :)



Sniper
Killed In Action BBS, telnet://kia.zapto.org
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download the info pack at either of the below sites:
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