Text 321, 154 rader
Skriven 2007-05-25 17:28:00 av bob klahn
     Kommentar till en text av VERN HUMPHREY
Ärende: Whats a good name for it
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MM>>Wherein Paul epistled Timothy saying ...

MM>>01 Rebuke not an elder, but intreat him as a father; and the
MM>>younger men as brethren;

MM>>02 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all
MM>>purity.

MM>>03 Honour widows that are widows indeed.

MM>>04 But if any widow have children or nephews, let them learn first
MM>>to shew piety at home, and to requite their parents: for that is
MM>>good and acceptable before God.

MM>>05 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God,
MM>>and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.

MM>>06 But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.

MM>>07 And these things give in charge, that they may be blameless.

MM>>08 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of
MM>>his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an
MM>>infidel.

MM>>09 Let not a widow be taken into the number under threescore years
MM>>old, having been the wife of one man.

MM>>10 Well reported of for good works; if she have brought up
MM>>children, if she have lodged strangers, if she have washed the
MM>>saints' feet, if she have relieved the afflicted, if she have
MM>>diligently followed every good work.

MM>>11 But the younger widows refuse: for when they have begun to wax
MM>>wanton against Christ, they will marry;

MM>>12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.

MM>>13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to
MM>>house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies,
MM>>speaking things which they ought not.

MM>>14 I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children,
MM>>guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak
MM>>reproachfully.

MM>>15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.

MM>>16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them
MM>>relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may
MM>>relieve them that are widows indeed.

MM>>17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double
MM>>honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

MM>>18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that
MM>>treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

MM>>19 Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or
MM>>three witnesses.

MM>>20 Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

MM>>21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the
MM>>elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring
MM>>one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

MM>>22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other
MM>>men's sins: keep thyself pure.

MM>>23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's
MM>>sake and thine often infirmities.

MM>>24 Some men's sins are open beforehand, going before to judgment;
MM>>and some men they follow after.

MM>>25 Likewise also the good works of some are manifest beforehand;
MM>>and they that are otherwise cannot be hid.

MM>>Mmmm ... so, which verse in particular should Johnson have heeded
MM>>before imposing his not-so "Great Society" ?

MM>>He'd have been an entirely different person if all the injunctions
MM>>here had been followed....

 VH> Paul is specifically talking about charity towards widows,
 VH> but his message applies to charity in generaly.  He makes
 VH> these points:

 VH> 1.  Those who can support themselves must support
 VH> themselves.

 VH>         "14 I will therefore that the younger women marry,
 VH>         bear children, guide the house, give none occasion
 VH>         to the adversary to speak reproachfully."

 While your point is valid as a matter of proper conduct, I don't
 see how your chosen text particularly supports it.

 VH> 2.  Those who cannot support themselves must be supported
 VH> by their families (not the Church, the community, the
 VH> government.)

 VH>         08 But if any provide not for his own, and
 VH>         specially for those of his own house, he hath
 VH>         denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

 His wording appears to include more than his family, as he makes
 a point of saying specially for those of his own house. Though
 this does not exclude support by the church, community and
 government, but requires the family do what they can.

  Further, this verse requires those who has widows take care of
  them so the church may take care of those widows who do not
  have support. Though his wording is quite obscure.

MM>>16 If any man or woman that believeth have widows, let them
MM>>relieve them, and let not the church be charged; that it may
MM>>relieve them that are widows indeed.

 VH> 3.  Excess charity has a devastating effect on the
 VH> recipients.

 VH>         13 And withal they learn to be idle, wandering
 VH>         about from house to house; and not only idle, but
 VH>         tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which
 VH>         they ought not.

 That one is applied to young widows who remarry. This is not
 clear, but it appears that Paul thought a woman who is widowed
 should not remarry. That to do so is to turn against Christ. I
 see no biblical basis for what he says, but it appears to be
 more ethnic custom.

 VH> Go into our inner cities or blighted rural areas and see
 VH> how right Paul was.

 Our inner cities and blighted rural areas were that way well
 before LBJ's Great society. From sharecroppers to ridge runners
 that has been how it has been. The orphan train was famous for
 removing street children from New York city, but the question
 should have been why were there street children in New York
 city. There have always been more working poor than welfare
 poor. And the welfare rolls have always fluctutated in accord
 with the economy.



BOB KLAHN bob.klahn@sev.org   http://home.toltbbs.com/bobklahn

... "All politics is local," extends to, "All politics is personal."
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