Text 1188, 203 rader
Skriven 2004-10-27 11:11:00 av Adam Flinton (1:379/45)
   Kommentar till text 1177 av Gary Wiltshire (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Article on WIPO & the public good
=============================================
From: Adam Flinton <adam_NO_@_SPAM_softfab.com>

Gary Wiltshire wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:34:18 +0100, Adam Flinton
> <adam@NOSPAM_softfab.com>  wrote:
>
>> There is but there are enough rich people who would wish a 3 hour
>> trip  to New York & there are enough middle-poor people who would
>> settle for  an 8 hour trip.
>
>
> No there AREN'T enough or there would be a fleet of SSTs crossing the
> Atlantic now.
>

Yes there are but the concorde was crippled by external factors such as public
opposition based on noise in the US & the military utility of a mach2+ long
range high flying aircraft. The Concorde was making a very healthy profit & the
numbers of people who cross the atlantic paying first/business class prices
demonstrate the numbers involved.

>> Concorde was noisy & was not allowed to be sold in large numbers to
>> politically dodgy countries unlike subsonic airliners which anyone
>> with  the cash could buy.
>
>
> Even if only the US, Canada and western Europe were allowed to buy them
> there would have been hundreds of them crisscrossing the Atlantic if
> they  were practical.  They weren't.
>

Nope becuase there were widescale protests in the period when the production
line was open wrt noise on takeoff/landing etc. The production line was then
closed & it was uneconomic to re-open it.


>>
>>> They were not - and your notion of refueling them in flight  for
>>> Pacific trade, only necessary BECAUSE they are gas guzzlers
>>> compared   to 747s, would be ludicrously dangerous.  Acceptable risks
>>> in military   flight don't necessarily translate to commercial.
>>>
>>
>> Indeed which is why it was an odd request & one which put concorde
>> into  the same export restriction as serious mil kit.
>
>
> Military use restrictions isn't the half of it.  In-flight refueling is
> DANGEROUS by commercial passenger standards.
>

It is. But flying is dangerous by commercial train stds so by that measure
commuter flights over land should be banned as being more dangerous than
necessary.



>> Yup but on most flights there are at least 2 classes of accomodation,
>> attracting different prices & yet both are often full. Same speed,
>> same  flight, different cost.
>
>
> Different accomodations making the trip variably bearable.
>

In the same way as a 3 hour trip is more bearable than an 8 hour trip & has the
added advantage of time saved?


>> The pill liberated women (& men) from unwanted pregancy. Unwanted
>> pregnancy used to (& in some places still does) mean shame & various
>> penalties in additon to the financial etc effects.
>>
>> However now unrestricted sexual congress can in many places in effect
>> carry a death sentence. Both the pill & the condom protect from
>> unwanted  pregnancy but the pill will not help protect you from the
>> possible death  sentence where a condom will.
>
>
> Duh.
>

So one of the great advances of the last 50 years is not so great compared to
ye olde condom.

>> Indeed not. However that is to assume that all oil/(natural) gas
>> fired  power stations use gas turbines.
>
>
> Overwhelmingly commonplace here.  They are efficient and easy to scale
> up  in individual small units at need with very little advance notice.
>

Maybe.


>> If noone could travel over long distances or if it was slow &
>> difficult  there would be little need for immigration etc laws. They
>> exist because  of the threat of massive immigration brought about by
>> cheap & rapid mass  transit over long distances.
>
>
> Garbage.  Illegal immigrants cross our southern border in the tens of
> thousands ON FOOT.
>

Indeed they do. However if it was just as easy to get into the US by air then
you'd be open to not just to central american poor but global poor.


>>
>> We have no problem with Dutch or French people or in extremis even
>> Belgians popping over & vice versa. However an airliner can deliver
>> large numbers of the world's poor in the richer places fast &
>> efficiently.
>
>
> Insignficant compared to our border problem where the people arrive ON
> FOOT.
>

Because of the tight controls placed on air travel.


>>>> Well what a surprise. It's as if people who learn via copying then
>>>> go  on  to create & thus others copy them who then go on to create
>>>> etc.etc.
>>>
>>>   That's right and it involves absorbing such western concepts as
>>> scientific  method and capitalism.
>>>
>>
>> Ah yes the Chinese lack of scientific progress such as the printing
>> press, the rocket etc.etc. gee I'll bet all those chinese had no idea
>> what money was till they met men from the West.
>
>
> And look how poorly either were ever utilized.  The Chinese were
> clueless  on implementing what little technology they had.

No they were not. Until fairly recently China was the greatest economic
& scientific power in the world. It was in large part the depradations
of the West (e.g. the Opium wars) allied to their complacency which lead to
their temporary eclipse by the west.

Equally the scientific & economic power house of Europe during the period of
scientific discovery by the West was Turkey.


> There is a
> considerable  difference between Scientific Method and what could hardly
> be called  "science" in China or other backward nations.

wrt to China you are simply wrong. It is just as correct to say that there is a
considerable difference between culture & what could hardly be called "culture"
in the US or other backward nations.

>  Ditto for
> capitalism and  market economies.  Islam, in this connection, has
> severely hurt the  progress of the Muslim world - won't even allow
> interest on loans!
>

Usury is against the tenets of a great number of religions. It is against the
tenets of Christianity too which used to account for the "Shylock" image of
Jews as Christians were also banned from usury.

The fact that the west engages in usury is more to do with the decline in
imporatnce of Christianity in the West.


>> Yup. But the time & expense & danger involved in travelling between
>> Rome  & Constantinople then was greater than the equivalent journey
>> between  any 2 major cities on earth today.
>
>
> That's very true, but it's still a bad comparison because the two were
> essentially one bilingual culture with the western or "Roman" part
> largely  built upon eastern or "Greek" models.
>

In what way is that different to the world we live in? The World Bank, WTO etc
are basically western models which others then build upon.

That model is in turn built upon a variety of sources including arabic numerics
& algebra etc in the same way that english includes large numbers of indian
words & concepts.


>> & that is before you factor in our common means of instant
>> communication  such as the phone or the internet.
>>
> Which will continue the spread of an essentially western global
> civilization.
>

Where western civilization is in large part built upon eastern basic knowledge
& civilization.

Adam

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