Text 15859, 424 rader
Skriven 2007-02-05 11:40:30 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: class attribute and standard HTML
=============================================
From: "Rich" <@>
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Don't ask me but your definition of crap includes standard compliant. =
It appears that you use the term "crap" for things you wish to whine =
about without regard to other factors like standards.
MsoNormal is the name of the HTML/CSS class. I'll refer you to the =
HTML and CSS standards for a description of how this works. The name = doesn't
matter. It could have been AdamIsAnIdiot and it would still be = standards
compliant. Assuming the presence of a class when not declared = is a violation
of the standards. Again, I'll refer you to the HTML and = CSS standards for a
description of how this works.
I was describing Word 2003 though the same applies to Word 2007. I =
give you the html element with the XML namespaces and you try to refute = this
by excerpting some other portion of a document. Are you dim? You = fly
totally off the handle with your comment
HTML 4 stuff is simply using no=20
namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely irrelevant =
&=20
as usual a canard.
Look at the html element again and note that a default namespace is = provided.
Rich
"Ad" <Dobbin@theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com> wrote in message =
news:45c6fec1@w3.nls.net...
Rich wrote:
> Good that you now acknowledge that the HTML is standards =
compliant. =20
Things can be standards compliant while still being crap & the Word =
HTML=20
is crap.
> I'm surprised you suggest non-compliance with a hack like "if no =
class=20
> set assume MsoNormal upon rendering". You're really being a =
hypocrite here.
> =20
Ummm no. What use is MsoNormal except to MS crap apps which expect it? =
Nothing else needs or uses it.
> Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the =
> HTML element
> =20
I'm not surprised you can't read because as usual you are purposefully =
deficient in your understanding of the english language ie.
"A) Which Word? We're mostly on 2003 with other versions dotted
about. "
Odd how you ignored that while wittering on about Word2k3
>=20
> <html xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"
> xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"
> xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>=20
> =20
> I'm surprised you haven't seen this if you have actually done any =
work=20
> on this content. Maybe you are just lying.
> =20
Nope it's you who's lying through your teeth as per Rich SOP.
e.g. a simple bit of text & a small table
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Some html from word</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Some more</p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>And now some <span class=3DGramE><b=20
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'>bold </b><span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>and</span> =
then=20
some <i
style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>italic</i> and then some=20
<u>underlined</u></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Now a table </p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class=3DMsoTableGrid border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 cellpadding=3D0
style=3D'border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid=20
windowtext .5pt;
mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt 0cm=20
5.4pt;mso-border-insideh:
.5pt solid windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext'>
<tr style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes'>
<td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
windowtext 1.0pt;
mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1</p>
</td>
<td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
windowtext 1.0pt;
border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid windowtext=20
.5pt;mso-border-alt:
solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2</p>
</td>
</tr>
<tr style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'>
<td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
windowtext 1.0pt;
border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext=20
.5pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;
padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1-2</p>
</td>
<td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop=20
style=3D'width:213.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:
none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid=20
windowtext 1.0pt;
mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid=20
windowtext .5pt;
mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2-2</p>
</td>
</tr>
</table>
Look at that crap.
(A) Check all the MsoNormal bollox everywhere.
(B) Given that Word HTML can use classes etc to the degree that it=20
plasters msoNormal on just about anything then how come each s*dding =
td=20
needs the same crappy styling info e.g.
style=3D'width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm =
5.4pt=20
0cm 5.4pt'
Why not then have a CSS section called "td.Mso" or whatever
for table you have :
table.MsoNormalTable which contains all the style info for a Word-ML =
table but then to moment you get into something which will repeat i.e. =
will take up far more text than table.......you fall back to slapping =
in=20
tons of element specific styling which turns out not to be element=20
specific i.e. every td has the same styling info applied to it.
i.e. there is no consistency or logic applied to the HTML, sometimes=20
it's class based css, other times it's direct inclusion of a style=20
attribute. There is no reason for this apart from a slipshod approach=20
probably tied to delivery dates & "it works so ship it" mentality.
Also note how you comment wrt
"Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the =
HTML=20
element" is also total crap as all the HTML 4 stuff is simply using no =
namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely irrelevant =
&=20
as usual a canard.
Adam
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16397" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Don't ask me but your =
definition of=20
crap includes standard compliant. It appears that you use the term =
"crap"=20
for things you wish to whine about without regard to other factors like=20
standards.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> MsoNormal is the name of =
the HTML/CSS=20
class. I'll refer you to the HTML and CSS standards for a = description
of=20
how this works. The name doesn't matter. It could have been=20
AdamIsAnIdiot and it would still be standards compliant. Assuming =
the=20
presence of a class when not declared is a violation of the =
standards. =20
Again, I'll refer you to the HTML and CSS standards for a description of =
how=20
this works.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I was describing Word 2003 =
though the=20
same applies to Word 2007. I give you the html element with the = XML=20
namespaces and you try to refute this by excerpting some other portion = of
a=20
document. Are you dim? You fly totally off the handle with =
your=20
comment</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" =
color=3D#008000=20
size=3D3>HTML 4 stuff is simply using no <BR>namespace/default =
namespace i.e.=20
the comment is completely irrelevant & <BR>as usual a=20
canard.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Look at the html element again and note =
that a=20
default namespace is provided.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ad" <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:Dobbin@theStablesCloseToTheAirport.com">Dobbin@theStablesC=
loseToTheAirport.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:45c6fec1@w3.nls.net">news:45c6fec1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>Ri=
ch=20
wrote:<BR>> Good that you now acknowledge that =
the HTML=20
is standards compliant. <BR><BR>Things can be standards =
compliant while=20
still being crap & the Word HTML <BR>is crap.<BR><BR><BR>> I'm=20
surprised you suggest non-compliance with a hack like "if no class =
<BR>>=20
set assume MsoNormal upon rendering". You're really being a =
hypocrite=20
here.<BR>> <BR><BR>Ummm no. What use is MsoNormal except to =
MS crap=20
apps which expect it? <BR>Nothing else needs or uses=20
it.<BR><BR>> Word 2003 uses XML namespaces as you =
should=20
have noticed from the <BR>> HTML element<BR>> <BR><BR>I'm =
not=20
surprised you can't read because as usual you are purposefully =
<BR>deficient=20
in your understanding of the english language ie.<BR><BR>"A) Which =
Word? We're=20
mostly on 2003 with other versions =
dotted<BR> =20
about. "<BR><BR>Odd how you ignored that while wittering on about=20
Word2k3<BR><BR>> <BR>> <html=20
=
xmlns:o=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office"<BR>> &n=
bsp; =20
=
xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word"<BR>> &nbs=
p; =20
xmlns=3D"<A=20
=
href=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40<=
/A>"><BR>>=20
<BR>> <BR>> I'm surprised you haven't seen this if you =
have=20
actually done any work <BR>> on this content. Maybe you are =
just=20
lying.<BR>> <BR><BR>Nope it's you who's lying through your =
teeth as=20
per Rich SOP.<BR><BR>e.g. a simple bit of text & a small=20
table<BR><BR><div class=3DSection1><BR><BR><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Some=20
html from word</p><BR><BR><p=20
=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>Some more</p><BR><BR><p=20
=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>And now some <span class=3DGramE><b=20
<BR>style=3D'mso-bidi-font-weight:<BR>normal'>bold =
</b><span=20
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>and</span> then =
<BR>some=20
<i<BR>style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'>italic</i> and =
then some=20
<BR><u>underlined</u></p><BR><BR><p=20
=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><BR><BR>&=
lt;p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>Now a table </p><BR><BR><p=20
=
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><BR><BR>&=
lt;table=20
class=3DMsoTableGrid border=3D1 cellspacing=3D0 =
cellpadding=3D0<BR> =20
style=3D'border-collapse:collapse;border:none;mso-border-alt:solid=20
<BR>windowtext .5pt;<BR> =
mso-yfti-tbllook:480;mso-padding-alt:0cm 5.4pt=20
0cm <BR>5.4pt;mso-border-insideh:<BR> .5pt solid=20
windowtext;mso-border-insidev:.5pt solid windowtext'><BR> =
<tr=20
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:0;mso-yfti-firstrow:yes'><BR> =
<td=20
width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
1.0pt;<BR> mso-border-alt:solid windowtext =
.5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt=20
0cm 5.4pt'><BR> <p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1</p><BR> =
</td><BR> =20
<td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
1.0pt;<BR> border-left:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid =
windowtext=20
<BR>.5pt;mso-border-alt:<BR> solid windowtext =
.5pt;padding:0cm=20
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><BR> <p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2</p><BR> =
</td><BR> =20
</tr><BR> <tr=20
style=3D'mso-yfti-irow:1;mso-yfti-lastrow:yes'><BR> =
<td=20
width=3D284 valign=3Dtop style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
1.0pt;<BR> border-top:none;mso-border-top-alt:solid =
windowtext=20
<BR>.5pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;<BR> =
padding:0cm=20
5.4pt 0cm 5.4pt'><BR> <p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>Tab1-2</p><BR> =20
</td><BR> <td width=3D284 valign=3Dtop=20
=
<BR>style=3D'width:213.05pt;border-top:none;border-left:<BR> =
none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:solid =
<BR>windowtext=20
1.0pt;<BR> mso-border-top-alt:solid windowtext=20
.5pt;mso-border-left-alt:solid <BR>windowtext .5pt;<BR> =20
mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm 5.4pt 0cm=20
5.4pt'><BR> <p=20
class=3DMsoNormal>Tab2-2</p><BR> =
</td><BR> =20
</tr><BR></table><BR><BR>Look at that crap.<BR><BR>(A) =
Check all=20
the MsoNormal bollox everywhere.<BR>(B) Given that Word HTML can use =
classes=20
etc to the degree that it <BR>plasters msoNormal on just about =
anything then=20
how come each s*dding td <BR>needs the same crappy styling info=20
e.g.<BR><BR>style=3D'width=3D284 valign=3Dtop =
style=3D'width:213.05pt;border:solid=20
<BR>windowtext 1.0pt;mso-border-alt:solid windowtext .5pt;padding:0cm =
5.4pt=20
<BR>0cm 5.4pt'<BR><BR>Why not then have a CSS section called "td.Mso" =
or=20
whatever<BR><BR>for table you have :<BR><BR> =
table.MsoNormalTable which=20
contains all the style info for a Word-ML <BR>table but then to moment =
you get=20
into something which will repeat i.e. <BR>will take up far more text =
than=20
table.......you fall back to slapping in <BR>tons of element specific =
styling=20
which turns out not to be element <BR>specific i.e. every td has the =
same=20
styling info applied to it.<BR><BR>i.e. there is no consistency or =
logic=20
applied to the HTML, sometimes <BR>it's class based css, other times =
it's=20
direct inclusion of a style <BR>attribute. There is no reason for this =
apart=20
from a slipshod approach <BR>probably tied to delivery dates & "it =
works=20
so ship it" mentality.<BR><BR><BR>Also note how you comment =
wrt<BR><BR>"Word=20
2003 uses XML namespaces as you should have noticed from the HTML =
<BR>element"=20
is also total crap as all the HTML 4 stuff is simply using no=20
<BR>namespace/default namespace i.e. the comment is completely =
irrelevant=20
& <BR>as usual a =
canard.<BR><BR><BR>Adam</BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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