Tillbaka till svenska Fidonet
English   Information   Debug  
OS2BBS   0/787
OS2DOSBBS   0/580
OS2HW   0/42
OS2INET   0/37
OS2LAN   0/134
OS2PROG   0/36
OS2REXX   0/113
OS2USER-L   207
OS2   0/4786
OSDEBATE   15095/18996
PASCAL   0/490
PERL   0/457
PHP   0/45
POINTS   0/405
POLITICS   0/29554
POL_INC   0/14731
PSION   103
R20_ADMIN   1121
R20_AMATORRADIO   0/2
R20_BEST_OF_FIDONET   13
R20_CHAT   0/893
R20_DEPP   0/3
R20_DEV   399
R20_ECHO2   1379
R20_ECHOPRES   0/35
R20_ESTAT   0/719
R20_FIDONETPROG...
...RAM.MYPOINT   0/2
R20_FIDONETPROGRAM   0/22
R20_FIDONET   0/248
R20_FILEFIND   0/24
R20_FILEFOUND   0/22
R20_HIFI   0/3
R20_INFO2   3218
R20_INTERNET   0/12940
R20_INTRESSE   0/60
R20_INTR_KOM   0/99
R20_KANDIDAT.CHAT   42
R20_KANDIDAT   28
R20_KOM_DEV   112
R20_KONTROLL   0/13270
R20_KORSET   0/18
R20_LOKALTRAFIK   0/24
R20_MODERATOR   0/1852
R20_NC   76
R20_NET200   245
R20_NETWORK.OTH...
...ERNETS   0/13
R20_OPERATIVSYS...
...TEM.LINUX   0/44
R20_PROGRAMVAROR   0/1
R20_REC2NEC   534
R20_SFOSM   0/340
R20_SF   0/108
R20_SPRAK.ENGLISH   0/1
R20_SQUISH   107
R20_TEST   2
R20_WORST_OF_FIDONET   12
RAR   0/9
RA_MULTI   106
RA_UTIL   0/162
REGCON.EUR   0/2056
REGCON   0/13
SCIENCE   0/1206
SF   0/239
SHAREWARE_SUPPORT   0/5146
SHAREWRE   0/14
SIMPSONS   0/169
STATS_OLD1   0/2539.065
STATS_OLD2   0/2530
STATS_OLD3   0/2395.095
STATS_OLD4   0/1692.25
SURVIVOR   0/495
SYSOPS_CORNER   0/3
SYSOP   0/84
TAGLINES   0/112
TEAMOS2   0/4530
TECH   0/2617
TEST.444   0/105
TRAPDOOR   0/19
TREK   0/755
TUB   0/290
UFO   0/40
UNIX   0/1316
USA_EURLINK   0/102
USR_MODEMS   0/1
VATICAN   0/2740
VIETNAM_VETS   0/14
VIRUS   0/378
VIRUS_INFO   0/201
VISUAL_BASIC   0/473
WHITEHOUSE   0/5187
WIN2000   0/101
WIN32   0/30
WIN95   0/4288
WIN95_OLD1   0/70272
WINDOWS   0/1517
WWB_SYSOP   0/419
WWB_TECH   0/810
ZCC-PUBLIC   0/1
ZEC   4

 
4DOS   0/134
ABORTION   0/7
ALASKA_CHAT   0/506
ALLFIX_FILE   0/1313
ALLFIX_FILE_OLD1   0/7997
ALT_DOS   0/152
AMATEUR_RADIO   0/1039
AMIGASALE   0/14
AMIGA   0/331
AMIGA_INT   0/1
AMIGA_PROG   0/20
AMIGA_SYSOP   0/26
ANIME   0/15
ARGUS   0/924
ASCII_ART   0/340
ASIAN_LINK   0/651
ASTRONOMY   0/417
AUDIO   0/92
AUTOMOBILE_RACING   0/105
BABYLON5   0/17862
BAG   135
BATPOWER   0/361
BBBS.ENGLISH   0/382
BBSLAW   0/109
BBS_ADS   0/5290
BBS_INTERNET   0/507
BIBLE   0/3563
BINKD   0/1119
BINKLEY   0/215
BLUEWAVE   0/2173
CABLE_MODEMS   0/25
CBM   0/46
CDRECORD   0/66
CDROM   0/20
CLASSIC_COMPUTER   0/378
COMICS   0/15
CONSPRCY   0/899
COOKING   32896
COOKING_OLD1   0/24719
COOKING_OLD2   0/40862
COOKING_OLD3   0/37489
COOKING_OLD4   0/35496
COOKING_OLD5   9370
C_ECHO   0/189
C_PLUSPLUS   0/31
DIRTY_DOZEN   0/201
DOORGAMES   0/2056
DOS_INTERNET   0/196
duplikat   6002
ECHOLIST   0/18295
EC_SUPPORT   0/318
ELECTRONICS   0/359
ELEKTRONIK.GER   1534
ENET.LINGUISTIC   0/13
ENET.POLITICS   0/4
ENET.SOFT   0/11701
ENET.SYSOP   33903
ENET.TALKS   0/32
ENGLISH_TUTOR   0/2000
EVOLUTION   0/1335
FDECHO   0/217
FDN_ANNOUNCE   0/7068
FIDONEWS   24126
FIDONEWS_OLD1   0/49742
FIDONEWS_OLD2   0/35949
FIDONEWS_OLD3   0/30874
FIDONEWS_OLD4   0/37224
FIDO_SYSOP   12852
FIDO_UTIL   0/180
FILEFIND   0/209
FILEGATE   0/212
FILM   0/18
FNEWS_PUBLISH   4408
FN_SYSOP   41678
FN_SYSOP_OLD1   71952
FTP_FIDO   0/2
FTSC_PUBLIC   0/13599
FUNNY   0/4886
GENEALOGY.EUR   0/71
GET_INFO   105
GOLDED   0/408
HAM   0/16070
HOLYSMOKE   0/6791
HOT_SITES   0/1
HTMLEDIT   0/71
HUB203   466
HUB_100   264
HUB_400   39
HUMOR   0/29
IC   0/2851
INTERNET   0/424
INTERUSER   0/3
IP_CONNECT   719
JAMNNTPD   0/233
JAMTLAND   0/47
KATTY_KORNER   0/41
LAN   0/16
LINUX-USER   0/19
LINUXHELP   0/1155
LINUX   0/22092
LINUX_BBS   0/957
mail   18.68
mail_fore_ok   249
MENSA   0/341
MODERATOR   0/102
MONTE   0/992
MOSCOW_OKLAHOMA   0/1245
MUFFIN   0/783
MUSIC   0/321
N203_STAT   926
N203_SYSCHAT   313
NET203   321
NET204   69
NET_DEV   0/10
NORD.ADMIN   0/101
NORD.CHAT   0/2572
NORD.FIDONET   189
NORD.HARDWARE   0/28
NORD.KULTUR   0/114
NORD.PROG   0/32
NORD.SOFTWARE   0/88
NORD.TEKNIK   0/58
NORD   0/453
OCCULT_CHAT   0/93
Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter
 lista första sista föregående nästa 
Text 16111, 142 rader
Skriven 2007-02-14 21:33:50 av Rich (1:379/45)
  Kommentar till text 16110 av Antti Kurenniemi (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Hacker, Microsoft duke it out over Vista design
===========================================================
From: "Rich" <@>

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_03FC_01C7507F.D0F90D80
Content-Type: text/plain;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   There is no gaining of admin privileges.  When a setup program =
without a manifest declaring its intended behavior is run a prompt is =
presented to the user.  That is the key.  Without this detection the = program
would otherwise have run as normal and would likely have = silently failed. 
The need for a heuristic goes away when ISVs start = declaring whether their
setup applications require elevation or not.

   The complaint of the "hacker" is that she believes users should have =
to choose between three options not two with the third being, run but = not
elevated.  I'm sure this can be debated on and on.  Three options is = more
complex to users than two and if the user chooses wrong then the = setup
program may appear to work but actually does not.  That is bad and = you can't
expect users to know which is which.  This is for setup = programs, something
the user will run rarely.  The resulting = application, unless it requires or
requests it, does not prompt for = elevation.  This is also a legacy issue. 
ISVs should be declaring their = elevation behavior.  The documentation for how
to do this has been = available for a while.  When declared the heuristics
don't apply.  In = other words, the issue will become moot.

Rich

  "Antti Kurenniemi" <NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com> wrote in message =
news:45d3ecf6@w3.nls.net...
  "mike" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message=20
  news:qp47t217su4asisj0on59nndl7q4294lar@4ax.com...
  > That's because Vista uses a compatibility database and
  > several heuristics to recognize installer executables and,
  > every time the OS detects that an executable is a setup
  > program, "it will only allow running it as administrator."

  So, I would only need to figure out the heuristics rule set, and then =
I=20
  could make my virus look like a setup executable and gain =
administrator=20
  privileges? Well that's just great. Wanna bet that it's already done? =
Just=20
  about the stupidest thing in the world, to let a computer use =
heuristics to=20
  decide if an executable should be given full access...


  Antti Kurenniemi


------=_NextPart_000_03FC_01C7507F.D0F90D80
Content-Type: text/html;
        charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.6000.16397" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; There is no gaining of =
admin=20
privileges.&nbsp; When a setup program without a manifest declaring its =
intended=20
behavior is run a prompt is presented to the user.&nbsp; That is the =
key.&nbsp;=20
Without this detection the program would otherwise have run as normal = and
would=20
likely have silently failed.&nbsp; The need for a heuristic goes away = when
ISVs=20
start declaring whether their setup applications require elevation or=20
not.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; The complaint of the =
"hacker" is that=20
she believes users should have to choose between three options not two = with
the=20
third being, run but not elevated.&nbsp; I'm sure this can be debated on =
and=20
on.&nbsp; Three options is more complex to users than two and if the = user=20
chooses wrong then the setup program may appear to work but actually = does=20
not.&nbsp; That is bad and you can't expect users to know which is =
which.&nbsp;=20
This is for setup programs, something the user will run rarely.&nbsp; = The=20
resulting application, unless it requires or requests it, does not = prompt
for=20
elevation.&nbsp; This is also a legacy issue.&nbsp; ISVs should be =
declaring=20
their elevation behavior.&nbsp; The documentation for how to do this has =
been=20
available for a while.&nbsp; When declared the heuristics don't = apply.&nbsp;
In=20
other words, the issue will become moot.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"Antti Kurenniemi" &lt;<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com">NOantti@SPAManttikPLEASE.com=
</A>&gt;=20
  wrote in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:45d3ecf6@w3.nls.net">news:45d3ecf6@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>"m=
ike"=20
  &lt;<A href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote =
in message=20
  <BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"news:qp47t217su4asisj0on59nndl7q4294lar@4ax.com">news:qp47t217su4=
asisj0on59nndl7q4294lar@4ax.com</A>...<BR>&gt;=20
  That's because Vista uses a compatibility database and<BR>&gt; several =

  heuristics to recognize installer executables and,<BR>&gt; every time =
the OS=20
  detects that an executable is a setup<BR>&gt; program, "it will only =
allow=20
  running it as administrator."<BR><BR>So, I would only need to figure =
out the=20
  heuristics rule set, and then I <BR>could make my virus look like a =
setup=20
  executable and gain administrator <BR>privileges? Well that's just =
great.=20
  Wanna bet that it's already done? Just <BR>about the stupidest thing =
in the=20
  world, to let a computer use heuristics to <BR>decide if an executable =
should=20
  be given full access...<BR><BR><BR>Antti=20
Kurenniemi<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_03FC_01C7507F.D0F90D80--

--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
 * Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)