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Möte OSDEBATE, 18996 texter

Text 17347, 140 rader
Skriven 2007-04-10 15:05:06 av Rich (1:379/45)
  Kommentar till text 17345 av mike (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: /GS
===============
From: "Rich" <@>

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   Have these folks never spoken with an engineer?  Of course this was =
tested and yes if emitted everywhere it is unacceptable.  In performance = for
sure and I think size too but I don't remember.

   As for a paranoid option as suggested, this is available via =
different means using #pragma strict_gs_check which Michael Howard = describes
at =
http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2007/04/03/hardening-stack-b=
ased-buffer-overrun-detection-in-vc-2005-sp1.aspx.  It's not as = described as
emitting one with no need.  It uses a different and lower = bar for when one
should be emitted.

   Both with and without the pragma checks are emitted when one is not =
needed and both could miss unusual cases where one could be needed = though
that is less likely with the pragma because it is a more = inclusive test. 
Then again, I think these folks don't understand the = purpose of the checks. 
They are not intended to fix or avoid bugs.  = They are a mitigation for when
bugs do exist to limit the risk due to = the bug.

Rich

  "mike" <mike@barkto.com> wrote in message =
news:e61o13pfa398b42o3shukiet2je1cjoe3b@4ax.com...


  http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2110151,00.asp



  =3D=3D=3D
  Once again, obviously an engineering trade-off decision was made.
  Perhaps Microsoft was concerned that putting in stack checking =
literally
  everywhere would fatten the program up beyond what was acceptable. Its
  compiler, its source code, it could do the testing to see.

   It seems to me that
  maybe there's a need for a /GSP (for "Paranoid") switch that puts in =
the
  stack check even if there doesn't seem to be a need, unless there's a
  good reason not to (there are cases, described by Microsoft, where the
  stack check code wouldn't be reliable).

  =3D=3D=3D


   /m
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Have these folks never =
spoken with an=20
engineer?&nbsp; Of course this was tested and yes if emitted everywhere = it
is=20
unacceptable.&nbsp; In performance for sure and I think size too but I =
don't=20
remember.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; As for a paranoid option =
as suggested,=20
this is available via different means using #pragma strict_gs_check = which=20
Michael Howard describes at <A=20
href=3D"http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2007/04/03/hardening=
-stack-based-buffer-overrun-detection-in-vc-2005-sp1.aspx">http://blogs.m=
sdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2007/04/03/hardening-stack-based-buffer-ov=
errun-detection-in-vc-2005-sp1.aspx</A>.&nbsp;=20
It's not as described as emitting one with no need.&nbsp; It uses a =
different=20
and lower&nbsp;bar for when one should be emitted.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp; Both with and without the =
pragma=20
checks are emitted when one is not needed and both could miss unusual =
cases=20
where one could be needed though that is less likely with the pragma = because
it=20
is a more inclusive test.&nbsp; Then again, I think these folks don't =
understand=20
the purpose of the checks.&nbsp; They are not intended to fix or avoid=20
bugs.&nbsp; They are a mitigation for when bugs do exist to limit the = risk
due=20
to the bug.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV>"mike" &lt;<A =
href=3D"mailto:mike@barkto.com">mike@barkto.com</A>&gt; wrote=20
  in message <A=20
  =
href=3D"news:e61o13pfa398b42o3shukiet2je1cjoe3b@4ax.com">news:e61o13pfa39=
8b42o3shukiet2je1cjoe3b@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><BR><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2110151,00.asp">http://www.e=
week.com/article2/0,1895,2110151,00.asp</A><BR><BR><BR><BR>=3D=3D=3D<BR>O=
nce=20
  again, obviously an engineering trade-off decision was =
made.<BR>Perhaps=20
  Microsoft was concerned that putting in stack checking =
literally<BR>everywhere=20
  would fatten the program up beyond what was acceptable. =
Its<BR>compiler, its=20
  source code, it could do the testing to see.</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
  <DIV>&nbsp;It seems to me that<BR>maybe there's a need for a /GSP (for =

  "Paranoid") switch that puts in the<BR>stack check even if there =
doesn't seem=20
  to be a need, unless there's a<BR>good reason not to (there are cases, =

  described by Microsoft, where the<BR>stack check code wouldn't be=20
  reliable).<BR></DIV>
  <DIV>=3D=3D=3D<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;/m</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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