Text 1754, 279 rader
Skriven 2005-01-03 23:40:56 av Rich (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================
From: "Rich" <@>
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The key distinction is that with the former you are in control while =
with the latter the other party is.
I have plenty of examples of the latter. The former has never been a =
problem for me or anyone I know. George hasn't given any indication it = has
ever been for him. Has it been for you?
Rich
"Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message =
news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com...
You and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are making
valid points.
I agree with you about letting the O/S remember stuff like credit card
numbers.
I agree with Rich about what the people to whom I freely GIVE my =
credit
card number are doing with the information.
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in
message <41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net>:
>But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you =
required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back
whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that
change your view of that secure telephone?
>
>I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to purchase =
stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a problem) with = the
computer remembering too much sensitive information.
>
>Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple =
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.
>
>Geo.
> "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
> I still disagree. You are mixing trust in the computer and =
trust in the content viewed with the computer. I don't trust = telemarketers
but I do not confuse that with trust of the telephone. = I'm sure you make the
latter distinction. Don't you make the former? = You have made plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.
>
> If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in then =
you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs. That is the = analogous
scenario. Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people = have been
exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe = land lines too.
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement = which has a long
history of listening to phone conversations. Now my = concerns are very
different from yours. I don't fear someone listening = to me communicating a
CC number or other PII. My concern is the = business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information. = There are plenty of examples of this. Try
asking your bank if they can =
tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?
>
> Rich
>
> "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
> "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
> >> I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
> your example supports it. In fact your story argues against your
> conclusion. People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they visit
> and the email they receive. If they did not many problems these =
people
> encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
> should not.<<
>
> That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not to =
trust their
> computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected =
by an email
> attachment.
>
> >> When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, the =
PC is the
> one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over which you =
have any
> control. Even non-techical users have control as you do not need =
to
> understand how things work to control them (e.g. TV). <<
>
> There is a difference between trusting a computer like you trust =
a telephone
> and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit =
card. I have
> no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone =
because it's
> unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing the
> telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I =
trust to be
> secure with storing that sort of information.
>
> Geo.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> The key distinction is =
that with the=20
former you are in control while with the latter the other party =
is.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I have plenty of examples =
of the=20
latter. The former has never been a problem for me or anyone I =
know. =20
George hasn't given any indication it has ever been for him. Has = it
been=20
for you?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ellen K." <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com">72322.enno.esspe=
ayem.1016@compuserve.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com">news:m5ekt0pm0n2=
6m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>You=20
and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are =
making<BR>valid=20
points.<BR><BR>I agree with you about letting the O/S remember stuff =
like=20
credit card<BR>numbers.<BR><BR>I agree with Rich about what the people =
to whom=20
I freely GIVE my credit<BR>card number are doing with the=20
information.<BR><BR>On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, "Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in<BR>message=20
<<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net">41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net</A>>:<BR><=
BR>>But=20
do you trust your telephone to store your information or are you =
required to=20
provide that information via the telephone? There is a difference, if =
your=20
telephone recorded your CC number and would play it back whenever =
someone hit=20
the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would that change your view =
of that=20
secure telephone?<BR>><BR>>I don't think people have a problem =
with=20
using a computer to purchase stuff, they just have a problem (or are =
learning=20
to have a problem) with the computer remembering too much sensitive=20
information.<BR>><BR>>Try thinking of both the telephone and the =
computer as simple communications devices, they really are quite =
similar in=20
that regard.<BR>><BR>>Geo.<BR>> "Rich" <@> wrote =
in=20
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>>=
=20
I still disagree. You are mixing trust in the computer and trust =
in the=20
content viewed with the computer. I don't trust telemarketers =
but I do=20
not confuse that with trust of the telephone. I'm sure you make =
the=20
latter distinction. Don't you make the former? You have =
made=20
plenty of claims in this groups that indicate that you=20
do.<BR>><BR>> If you think people should =
be=20
afraid of folks listening in then you should be encouraging folks to =
fear=20
their ISPs. That is the analogous scenario. Your telephone =
analogy=20
is a bad one because people have been exploited by folks listening in =
on=20
mobile phones and maybe land lines too. Someone else claimed a =
paranoid=20
fear of law enforcement which has a long history of listening to phone =
conversations. Now my concerns are very different from =
yours. I=20
don't fear someone listening to me communicating a CC number or other=20
PII. My concern is the business to which I communicate it =
doesn't=20
protect the information. There are plenty of examples of=20
this. Try asking your bank if they can tell you which of =
their=20
employees has seen your SSN and when?<BR>><BR>> =20
Rich<BR>><BR>> "Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote in =
message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
>> I disagree with your conclusion and even more =
with the=20
suggestion that<BR>> your example supports =
it. In=20
fact your story argues against your<BR>> =20
conclusion. People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they=20
visit<BR>> and the email they receive. If =
they did=20
not many problems these people<BR>> encounter =
would not=20
exist as they rely on the users trusting something=20
they<BR>> should=20
not.<<<BR>><BR>> That is what proves my =
point, I=20
said people are learning not to trust their<BR>> =20
computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected by an =
email<BR>> =
attachment.<BR>><BR>> =20
>> When using the Internet, of all the components to =
trust,=20
the PC is the<BR>> one most worthy of trust as it =
is the=20
only one over which you have any<BR>> =20
control. Even non-techical users have control as you do not need =
to<BR>> understand how things work to control =
them =20
(e.g. TV). <<<BR>><BR>> There is a =
difference between trusting a computer like you trust a=20
telephone<BR>> and trusting it like you would =
trust=20
someone with your credit card. I have<BR>> no =
problem=20
telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone because=20
it's<BR>> unlikely someone is listening in, I do =
have a=20
problem with allowing the<BR>> telephone to =
remember my=20
CC number because it's not a device I trust to =
be<BR>> =20
secure with storing that sort of=20
information.<BR>><BR>> =20
Geo.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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