Text 1768, 343 rader
Skriven 2005-01-04 17:04:52 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 1759 av Geo (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================
From: "Rich" <@>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C4F27F.82257DC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I see the difference between your proposed scenario and everything we =
have discussed in this thread. Because of that it has no relevance on =
anything we have discussed. Could you possibly stay on topic and maybe = try
to defend your earlier claims?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message news:41da7cc4@w3.nls.net...
You said I didn't answer your questions, I didn't understand the =
telemarketer/telephone question because there is nothing to trust about = the
telephone since it's just a dumb device, if you mean do I trust my = phone
company then yes I do. If you are asking if I trust telemarketers = (strangers
that call me on the phone) then no I don't but I don't see = how either of
those apply to the device called a telephone.
I would NOT trust the telephone if people could remotely talk directly =
to the phone without having it ring and if it stored my recorded =
conversations. Do you see the risk difference between that and the dumb =
device most people know as a telephone today?
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41da0dc7$1@w3.nls.net...
I do trust some of my phones to store info. I don't have my =
phone store the info that concerns me that businesses with whom I deal = will
protect. My computer doesn't store that either. I can ensure the = latter
because I have control of my computer and what it saves. Same = for my
telephones.
You aren't answering my questions. I suspect it is because they =
point out that you can't defend the claims you are making.
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net...
But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are =
you required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back
whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that
change your view of that secure telephone?
I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to =
purchase stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a = problem)
with the computer remembering too much sensitive information.
Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple =
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.
Geo.
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
I still disagree. You are mixing trust in the computer and =
trust in the content viewed with the computer. I don't trust = telemarketers
but I do not confuse that with trust of the telephone. = I'm sure you make the
latter distinction. Don't you make the former? = You have made plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.
If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in =
then you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs. That is the =
analogous scenario. Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people = have
been exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe = land lines
too. Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement = which has a
long history of listening to phone conversations. Now my = concerns are very
different from yours. I don't fear someone listening = to me communicating a
CC number or other PII. My concern is the = business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information. = There are plenty of examples of this. Try
asking your bank if they can =
tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?
Rich
"Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
"Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
>> I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
your example supports it. In fact your story argues against =
your
conclusion. People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they visit
and the email they receive. If they did not many problems =
these people
encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
should not.<<
That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not =
to trust their
computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting =
infected by an email
attachment.
>> When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, =
the PC is the
one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over which you =
have any
control. Even non-techical users have control as you do not =
need to
understand how things work to control them (e.g. TV). <<
There is a difference between trusting a computer like you =
trust a telephone
and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit =
card. I have
no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone =
because it's
unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing the
telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I =
trust to be
secure with storing that sort of information.
Geo.
------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C4F27F.82257DC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.3790.1289" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I see the difference =
between your=20
proposed scenario and everything we have discussed in this thread. =
Because=20
of that it has no relevance on anything we have discussed. Could = you=20
possibly stay on topic and maybe try to defend your earlier =
claims?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41da7cc4@w3.nls.net">news:41da7cc4@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You said I didn't answer your =
questions, I didn't=20
understand the telemarketer/telephone question because there is =
nothing to=20
trust about the telephone since it's just a dumb device, if you mean =
do I=20
trust my phone company then yes I do. If you are asking if I trust=20
telemarketers (strangers that call me on the phone) then no I don't =
but I=20
don't see how either of those apply to the device called a=20
telephone.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I would NOT trust the telephone if =
people could=20
remotely talk directly to the phone without having it ring and if =
it=20
stored my recorded conversations. Do you see the risk difference =
between that=20
and the dumb device most people know as a telephone =
today?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41da0dc7$1@w3.nls.net">news:41da0dc7$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I do trust some of my =
phones to=20
store info. I don't have my phone store the info that concerns =
me that=20
businesses with whom I deal will protect. My computer doesn't =
store=20
that either. I can ensure the latter because I have control of =
my=20
computer and what it saves. Same for my =
telephones.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> You aren't answering =
my=20
questions. I suspect it is because they point out that you =
can't=20
defend the claims you are making.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A =
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net">news:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>But do you trust your telephone =
to store your=20
information or are you required to provide that information via =
the=20
telephone? There is a difference, if your telephone recorded your =
CC=20
number and would play it back whenever someone hit the correct 3 =
digit=20
number sequence, how would that change your view of that secure=20
telephone?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I don't think people have a =
problem with=20
using a computer to purchase stuff, they just have a =
problem (or are=20
learning to have a problem) with the computer remembering too much =
sensitive information.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Try thinking of both the =
telephone and the=20
computer as simple communications devices, they really are quite =
similar=20
in that regard.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Geo.</FONT></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> I still =
disagree. You=20
are mixing trust in the computer and trust in the content viewed =
with=20
the computer. I don't trust telemarketers but I do not =
confuse=20
that with trust of the telephone. I'm sure you make the =
latter=20
distinction. Don't you make the former? You have =
made plenty=20
of claims in this groups that indicate that you do.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> If you think =
people should be=20
afraid of folks listening in then you should be encouraging =
folks to=20
fear their ISPs. That is the analogous scenario. =
Your=20
telephone analogy is a bad one because people have been =
exploited by=20
folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe land lines =
too. =20
Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement which =
has a long=20
history of listening to phone conversations. Now my =
concerns are=20
very different from yours. I don't fear someone listening =
to me=20
communicating a CC number or other PII. My concern is the =
business=20
to which I communicate it doesn't protect the information. =
There=20
are plenty of examples of this. Try asking your bank =
if they=20
can tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and=20
when?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: =
5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Geo" <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...</DI=
V>"Rich"=20
<@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
>> =20
I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion=20
that<BR>your example supports it. In fact your story =
argues=20
against your<BR>conclusion. People do trust their =
computers and=20
the web sites they visit<BR>and the email they receive. =
If they=20
did not many problems these people<BR>encounter would not =
exist as=20
they rely on the users trusting something they<BR>should=20
not.<<<BR><BR>That is what proves my point, I said =
people are=20
learning not to trust their<BR>computers, they learn this by =
getting=20
rooted or getting infected by an=20
email<BR>attachment.<BR><BR>>> When using =
the=20
Internet, of all the components to trust, the PC is the<BR>one =
most=20
worthy of trust as it is the only one over which you =
have=20
any<BR>control. Even non-techical users have control as =
you do=20
not need to<BR>understand how things work to control =
them (e.g.=20
TV). <<<BR><BR>There is a difference between =
trusting a=20
computer like you trust a telephone<BR>and trusting it like =
you would=20
trust someone with your credit card. I have<BR>no problem =
telling a=20
vendor my CC number over the telephone because =
it's<BR>unlikely=20
someone is listening in, I do have a problem with allowing=20
the<BR>telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a =
device I=20
trust to be<BR>secure with storing that sort of=20
=
information.<BR><BR>Geo.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></=
BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_025A_01C4F27F.82257DC0--
--- BBBS/NT v4.01 Flag-5
* Origin: Barktopia BBS Site http://HarborWebs.com:8081 (1:379/45)
|