Text 1831, 313 rader
Skriven 2005-01-09 01:40:28 av Rich (1:379/45)
Kommentar till text 1824 av Ellen K. (1:379/45)
Ärende: Re: Usage history
=========================
From: "Rich" <@>
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Because you are in control, my point to george.
Rich
"Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in message =
news:qgb1u01q9d446o8qo18nepf463e0rnhi41@4ax.com...
I don't have any functionality enabled on any of my machines that =
would
permit the OS to remember my credit card number.
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 23:40:57 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message
<41da4628@w3.nls.net>:
> The key distinction is that with the former you are in control =
while with the latter the other party is.
>
> I have plenty of examples of the latter. The former has never =
been a problem for me or anyone I know. George hasn't given any = indication
it has ever been for him. Has it been for you?
>
>Rich
>
> "Ellen K." <72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com> wrote in =
message news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com...
> You and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are making
> valid points.
>
> I agree with you about letting the O/S remember stuff like credit =
card
> numbers.
>
> I agree with Rich about what the people to whom I freely GIVE my =
credit
> card number are doing with the information.
>
> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in
> message <41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net>:
>
> >But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are =
you required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference, if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it = back
whenever someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would = that
change your view of that secure telephone?
> >
> >I don't think people have a problem with using a computer to =
purchase stuff, they just have a problem (or are learning to have a = problem)
with the computer remembering too much sensitive information.
> >
> >Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple =
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that regard.
> >
> >Geo.
> > "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net...
> > I still disagree. You are mixing trust in the computer and =
trust in the content viewed with the computer. I don't trust = telemarketers
but I do not confuse that with trust of the telephone. = I'm sure you make the
latter distinction. Don't you make the former? = You have made plenty of
claims in this groups that indicate that you do.
> >
> > If you think people should be afraid of folks listening in =
then you should be encouraging folks to fear their ISPs. That is the =
analogous scenario. Your telephone analogy is a bad one because people = have
been exploited by folks listening in on mobile phones and maybe = land lines
too. Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of law enforcement = which has a
long history of listening to phone conversations. Now my = concerns are very
different from yours. I don't fear someone listening = to me communicating a
CC number or other PII. My concern is the = business to which I communicate it
doesn't protect the information. = There are plenty of examples of this. Try
asking your bank if they can =
tell you which of their employees has seen your SSN and when?
> >
> > Rich
> >
> > "Geo" <georger@nls.net> wrote in message =
news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net...
> > "Rich" <@> wrote in message news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net...
> > >> I disagree with your conclusion and even more with the =
suggestion that
> > your example supports it. In fact your story argues against =
your
> > conclusion. People do trust their computers and the web sites =
they visit
> > and the email they receive. If they did not many problems =
these people
> > encounter would not exist as they rely on the users trusting =
something they
> > should not.<<
> >
> > That is what proves my point, I said people are learning not =
to trust their
> > computers, they learn this by getting rooted or getting =
infected by an email
> > attachment.
> >
> > >> When using the Internet, of all the components to trust, =
the PC is the
> > one most worthy of trust as it is the only one over which you =
have any
> > control. Even non-techical users have control as you do not =
need to
> > understand how things work to control them (e.g. TV). <<
> >
> > There is a difference between trusting a computer like you =
trust a telephone
> > and trusting it like you would trust someone with your credit =
card. I have
> > no problem telling a vendor my CC number over the telephone =
because it's
> > unlikely someone is listening in, I do have a problem with =
allowing the
> > telephone to remember my CC number because it's not a device I =
trust to be
> > secure with storing that sort of information.
> >
> > Geo.
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> Because you are in =
control, my point=20
to george.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Rich</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV>"Ellen K." <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com">72322.enno.esspe=
ayem.1016@compuserve.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:qgb1u01q9d446o8qo18nepf463e0rnhi41@4ax.com">news:qgb1u01q9d4=
46o8qo18nepf463e0rnhi41@4ax.com</A>...</DIV>I=20
don't have any functionality enabled on any of my machines that=20
would<BR>permit the OS to remember my credit card number.<BR><BR>On =
Mon, 3 Jan=20
2005 23:40:57 -0800, "Rich" <@> wrote in message<BR><<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:41da4628@w3.nls.net">41da4628@w3.nls.net</A>>:<BR><BR>&=
gt; =20
The key distinction is that with the former you are in control while =
with the=20
latter the other party is.<BR>><BR>> I have plenty =
of=20
examples of the latter. The former has never been a problem for =
me or=20
anyone I know. George hasn't given any indication it has ever =
been for=20
him. Has it been for =
you?<BR>><BR>>Rich<BR>><BR>> =20
"Ellen K." <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:72322.enno.esspeayem.1016@compuserve.com">72322.enno.esspe=
ayem.1016@compuserve.com</A>>=20
wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:m5ekt0pm0n26m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com">news:m5ekt0pm0n2=
6m9nh71mdteqcod1trf9g4e@4ax.com</A>...<BR>> =20
You and Rich are talking past each other and both of you are=20
making<BR>> valid points.<BR>><BR>> I agree with =
you=20
about letting the O/S remember stuff like credit card<BR>> =20
numbers.<BR>><BR>> I agree with Rich about what the people =
to whom=20
I freely GIVE my credit<BR>> card number are doing with the=20
information.<BR>><BR>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 22:28:18 -0500, =
"Geo"=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote=20
in<BR>> message <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net">41da0bfb$1@w3.nls.net</A>>:<BR>&=
gt;<BR>> =20
>But do you trust your telephone to store your information or are =
you=20
required to provide that information via the telephone? There is a =
difference,=20
if your telephone recorded your CC number and would play it back =
whenever=20
someone hit the correct 3 digit number sequence, how would that change =
your=20
view of that secure telephone?<BR>> ><BR>> >I =
don't=20
think people have a problem with using a computer to purchase stuff, =
they just=20
have a problem (or are learning to have a problem) with the computer=20
remembering too much sensitive information.<BR>> =
><BR>> =20
>Try thinking of both the telephone and the computer as simple=20
communications devices, they really are quite similar in that=20
regard.<BR>> ><BR>> >Geo.<BR>> =
> =20
"Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net">news:41d98d5e@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>>=
=20
> I still disagree. You are mixing =
trust in=20
the computer and trust in the content viewed with the computer. =
I don't=20
trust telemarketers but I do not confuse that with trust of the=20
telephone. I'm sure you make the latter distinction. Don't =
you=20
make the former? You have made plenty of claims in this groups =
that=20
indicate that you do.<BR>> ><BR>> =20
> If you think people should be afraid of =
folks=20
listening in then you should be encouraging folks to fear their =
ISPs. =20
That is the analogous scenario. Your telephone analogy is a bad =
one=20
because people have been exploited by folks listening in on mobile =
phones and=20
maybe land lines too. Someone else claimed a paranoid fear of =
law=20
enforcement which has a long history of listening to phone=20
conversations. Now my concerns are very different from =
yours. I=20
don't fear someone listening to me communicating a CC number or other=20
PII. My concern is the business to which I communicate it =
doesn't=20
protect the information. There are plenty of examples of=20
this. Try asking your bank if they can tell you which of =
their=20
employees has seen your SSN and when?<BR>> ><BR>> =
> Rich<BR>> ><BR>> =
> "Geo"=20
<<A href=3D"mailto:georger@nls.net">georger@nls.net</A>> wrote =
in message=20
<A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d92728$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
> "Rich" <@> wrote in message <A=20
=
href=3D"news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net">news:41d891c8$1@w3.nls.net</A>...<BR>=
> =20
> >> I disagree with your =
conclusion=20
and even more with the suggestion that<BR>> =
> =20
your example supports it. In fact your story argues against=20
your<BR>> > conclusion. People do =
trust=20
their computers and the web sites they visit<BR>> =20
> and the email they receive. If they did =
not many=20
problems these people<BR>> > encounter =
would not=20
exist as they rely on the users trusting something they<BR>> =20
> should not.<<<BR>> =
><BR>> =20
> That is what proves my point, I said people are =
learning not to trust their<BR>> > =
computers,=20
they learn this by getting rooted or getting infected by an=20
email<BR>> > attachment.<BR>> =20
><BR>> > >> When =
using the=20
Internet, of all the components to trust, the PC is the<BR>> =20
> one most worthy of trust as it is the only one=20
over which you have any<BR>> > =20
control. Even non-techical users have control as you do not need =
to<BR>> > understand how things work to =
control=20
them (e.g. TV). <<<BR>> ><BR>> =20
> There is a difference between trusting a =
computer like=20
you trust a telephone<BR>> > and =
trusting it=20
like you would trust someone with your credit card. I =
have<BR>> =20
> no problem telling a vendor my CC number over =
the=20
telephone because it's<BR>> > unlikely =
someone=20
is listening in, I do have a problem with allowing the<BR>> =20
> telephone to remember my CC number because it's =
not a=20
device I trust to be<BR>> > secure with =
storing=20
that sort of information.<BR>> ><BR>> =20
> Geo.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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